US Double-Dip Economic Recession Great Depression of 2010
77The greatest depression will strike usa 2010
Update: August 27, 2010, I will soon update this information to reflect the current situation in America. The current financial situation is far worse than the information already posted on this Hub. For those who found their way here from a search about the double-dip recession, get a clue this is not a double dip recession! This is the original recession that is simply worsening, the current White House Administration led by Barack Obama and his Socialist Party has simply lied for months about a phantom recovery.
Original Posting:
If you have been following my financial hubs you already know that I predicted 2010 as the year the USA would finally face the music, pay the piper and enter the greatest depression known to America. I take no pleasure in stating that I was absolutely correct, but the facts I am now going to share with you will no doubt be a call to action.
All this recovery nonsense is nothing but a phantom recovery. The golden tongued teleprompter pro strikes again.
- Loans in foreclosure now represent 4.6 per cent of all mortgages, and the number of mortgages more than 90 days overdue has now climbed to 5.1 per cent.
- half of approximately $1.4 trillion in commercial loans is coming due over the next four years are under water
- hundreds of small-and mid-sized banks face insolvency
- property values down 40 per cent since 2007 and 18 per cent of office space sitting vacant.
- national debt of $12.4 trillion Obama, apparently unfazed, signed a law this month that raised the limit on public debt to $14.3 trillion
- Government debt now amounts to more than $40,000 for each American, $113,000 for each taxpayer
- China has indicated its lack of confidence in the crumbling U.S. economy by unloading $34.2 billion in U.S. bonds in December, relinquishing its status as the largest holder of U.S. foreign debt to Japan
- And for the last little goodie, I will just let you go read it for yourself, If you can not handle really bad and shocking news, don't go! Something very strange going on with treasury.
R.I.P. Great Depression, Great Deception
The 2009 Recession Continues To Worsen
Foreclosure filings jumped 24 % first quarter, The US Economy has Contracted at a 5.7% Rate in the first quarter. So much for the all mighty stimulus plans and bailouts helping the average American! Well, let me see! The economy is already dead around the world, so this 5.7% contraction really means that the already dead horse, continues to decay.
Everyone appears to be excited because the U.S. economy only shrank 5.7% instead of the forecast of 6.3%. Sure, this is better than the 6.3, but it certainly isn't anything to rejoice about. Tell me that the economy grew just 0.01% and just maybe we can even dare to think that this dead horse is beginning to revive, but until then the economists and the Government may as well just shut their mouths.
It is now June 09, reports are now saying that although Banks somehow reported profits in the first quarter (Lies) they are now failing. Banks Failing
Read about the foreclosures here; Foreclosures.
Will the United States economic recession become the great 2009 depression? Obama has furthered the United States fall into a depression in 2009, 2010. Slick speaking will not prevent a hard landing this year or the beginning of 2010. If Obama continues the T.A.R.P. bailouts, and stimulus gluts, the value of the dollar will finally crash around the World. The effects of the dollar crashing will be world wide global depression. And the scandals like that of AIG Bonuses will only worsen our condition.
Add to the Bailouts, all the Stimulus garbage and the economy has no choice but to dive further into probably the worst depression the World has ever seen. We are so much worse off today than the people of the great depression were. When you consider the difference in population and the credit monster looming over most of the World today, it isn't looking too good.
When you see the Government pushing so much worthless paper money into the economy, it makes one wonder where their head is! Did you all know that every single expert out there is saying that housing prices will continue to fall for another year and one half? They also tell us that the value of homes will fall another 29 %.
What this means is that everyone who gets one of these loans that are being pushed as part of the stimulus, will buy the home only to have it drop almost 30 % in value in a short 1 1/2 years. Doesn't that sound like a foolish thing to do? Yet, knowing full well that this is fact, the Government is making funds available through the stimulus plan so that Americans will buy homes.
We already have millions of Americans looking for foreclosure help, I suppose the Government could really care less if they are the cause of a few million more being added to the foreclosure list.
This is an added not: It is now July 3, 2009, Obama's mortgage bailout plan has failed. So he is now creating a brand new deal, which will also fail. This new mortgage bailout plan is called, " The president's Making Home Affordable plan."
If you read my comments above which are from a year ago, you will see that I had told you the plan would fail. I also pointed out the fact of how ignorant it is to help people buy homes when the value was guaranteed to drop drastically. Well, we read this morning that housing prices tumbled another 18% from a year ago. If you bought your home last year, you were foolish my friend. You need to stop listening to the very same economists and Government leaders who continue to sink our nation. Wake Up!
Here is a voice from the past that we should listen to today;
I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson
Here is what Thomas Jefferson said way back in in 1802: "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
We are not yet at the point people were at in the Great depression, but we are at the door, getting ready to walk through it. Many are already comparing our condition with that of those in the Great Depression, at the moment they are wrong. I believe that by the end of April, they will be right.
Update: Are we in a Depression? Can we call it a Depression yet?
For a very short time the band aide (T.A.R.P.) will give the impression that things may be picking up, but shortly after the band aide has been applied the festering sore beneath it will have grown and force the band aide to fall off.
You all just go ahead and keep listening to the very ones who brought this condition on us, Corrupt Corporations and Political Leaders. Who do you think pushed so hard to get credit cards in all the hands of Americans? Who do you think caused all the mortgage failures? Greedy Corporations did it.
Honestly, I am fed up with this Presidents lip service. This man is either self deceived, a liar, or a fool, take your pick. I am totally sick of how this man keeps talking about the debt he received from the prior administration, when all along he refuses to even acknowledge the mountains of debt he has personaly created. When we set his mountain of debt next to the little hill he inherited from Bush, it is clear that this President must be blind to his own evil. He needs to shut his mouth because every time he opens it he shoves his foot into it deeper.
Let me tell you what my friend did when he was approached by his boss with the very first loan application that brought all this mess on. Dan told them to put that application where the Sun don't shine. My friend told the broker that this was a recipe for failed loans and he would not have a part in screwing millions of Americans. If my friend Dan knew what these type of loans would do, so did all the Mortgage companies and Lenders....Greed did this.
Let me tell you something about the good old Stock Exchange; have you ever noticed that it is set up just like a Casino? In fact, I call it the Corporate Casino. You haul your paycheck down to them, shove it into their Corporate pot in hopes of making a killing. But in the end, just like a Casino, the Corporation comes out on top and the little guy they suckered gets crushed.
Look at who the Governments are giving all your tax dollars to, it certainly isn't being given to the little guy who earned it, is it? No, the Corporate Casino comes out on top and all the investors (gamblers) go home broke once again.
You just go right ahead and follow your old ways of waiting until after-the-fact, waiting until the problem is too big to fix, waiting until after the flood has already hit. Not me.
I have learned a valuable lesson on this Hub. I have found that when the truth hurts, facts are called "Conspiracy Theory."
Update 3/18/2009; We just heard today that the United States deficit is far worse than the Obama Administration had predicted. The Government has to borrow at least another one trillion dollars from itself in order to cover their budget.
All the top economists are claiming that the Obama Administration is wrong about the projected deficit, these economists say that the added one trillion dollars is short by another trillion dollars.
What does this mean for the economy of The United States? It means that the value of the dollar will rapidly fall, gold will jump, and foreign currency trading (Forex Trading) will rise as investors look for a safe investment. This will further the onset of hyperinflation.
James Madison
T.A.R.P. AKA the 700 Billion Dollar Bailout Will Smother America
Everything is so overpriced in America; the average consumer is forced to use credit to purchase the common staples just to survive. This crediting of America has caused an economic hole that the majority of Americans are struggling to get out of.
The political answer to this ever deepening economic hole was the creation of the "troubled asset relief program," or, T.A.R.P. The first 350 billion dollars was given to Banks who had lent money to consumers to purchase homes, these Banks and Lenders knew full well that these consumers would be unable to pay them back. Corporate greed for more and more drove these institutions to get another buck any way they could.
Well, they got it didn't they? Little did we Americans know that they would get it in the form of the tax payer’s money in a massive T.A.R.P. bailout. In essence, what has taken place is the consumer, you and me, have now taken on more credit through the form of a Government bailout of Corporate America. Most Americans never consider the fact that when our Government borrows money they do so in our name, we are the responsible party that has to pay it all back, through our taxes.
Obama’s new plan to use the other half of the T.A.R.P. funds is just as deadly for the average American. On the face of Obama’s plan it looks good, but when you look at the details you find that he will do nothing more than, more of the same.
I’m not going to get into it all on this Hub, but what it does is deepens the consumers credit debt. Obama is going to see that you and me get a piece of this pie, but in the form of credit being made available to us. I am so fed up with politicians who do nothing but further the credit problem in America. Go ahead President Obama, help us dig a deeper economic hole, and while you’re at it, start shoveling in the dirt.
One thing that I do not think people are considering is the fact that millions of people have been awakened now to the error of their spending ways. I do not believe that even with the Governments trying to tempt and entice consumers to spend is going to work. People may not be as stupid as Washington is hoping.
What Economists Refuse To Tell Americans And What Obama Hid From Americans
Here is a little talked about fact concerning the Great Depression. Did you know that in the years just prior to the Stock Market crash and the Great Depression that the Government increased the money supply into the economy by 61.8 %? Strange, isn't it, all these economists have failed to mention this little piece of information?
Again, I say; Those who do not study history, are doomed to repeat it!
What Obama refuses to tell us is that the new budget, was written by two French Socialists. Well imagine that, Obama rushes this budget to Congress, and now we learn that this budget was written by French Socialists. Obama you sure are a slick Fox!
Puppet Obama
My Latest Rant
- Stop already with the News about the Big Boys spending Billions on bonuses! Let's remember what really happened; our foolish Government leaders threw these billions in their laps with no conditions. Conditions were talked about before these Billions were given to these fat cats, but some how those conditions disappered on the path from the White House to the Fat Cats house.
- A sign of Governmental Tyranny is the attempt to suppress liberty.
- Supressed liberty is the sign of slavery.
- Most know what a slave is, but most do not know they are a slave.
- Once a people have been enslaved, the Dictator will Dictate.
- We believe that all have a right to their opinion, but the Dictator will silence all.
- For evry one crooked politician caught, there are another dozen yet to be exposed.
Truth About Troubled Banks "Citibank"
- Credit unions pay for risky behavior by a few
The nation's 7,500 credit unions are paying to clean up a multibillion-dollar mess created by a handful of failed institutions that invested in risky mortgage-backed securities. - 17 months ago
- Banks slowly returning to health
The nation’s banks continued their slow return to health in the third quarter, according to reports filed with a federal regulator. Check your bank or credit union in the BankTracker. - 17 months ago
- Bank profits rise, but so do bad loans
The number of banks with risky levels of bad loans rose slightly in the latest quarter, even as bank profits rose sharply. Check your bank or credit union in the BankTracker. - 23 months ago
- List of banks under stress keeps growing
The number of banks with risky levels of bad loans rose slightly in the latest quarter. Check yours in the BankTracker from msnbc.com and the Investigative Reporting Workshop. - 2 years ago
- Look up any bank at the Investigative Reporting Workshop
- 2 years ago
Alexander Hamilton
We Had Better Stand Now or Forever Hold Our Peace!
I move that we as Americans stand together and march on every Government facility in America. O.K., I'll give Washington just a little more time to squander our money and prove to the Obama backers that this bailout garbage is a joke and will not help us in the end.
We Americans had better regain the spirit of our Forefathers before we allow our out of control Politicians to finish us off. The Government just loves the way we all bicker and fight among ourselves, this is the process they use to keep society from rebelling against them.
Don't you Americans even care about your liberties being taken away? Don't you even care about the fact that the rich are getting richer even as the middle class is being destroyed and joining the ranks of the poor?
What? Do you call having credit and oweing everything you have plus more, a blessing? Are you blind, or just stupid? Are you going to just set there and allow yourself to be buried by our loving Government policies that put us further and further in debt to foreign countries and fat cat banks.
Come on folks, wake up from the sleep our leaders have put you in. You mark my words, after this latest bailout, it will not be long afterwards that you will finally see that it has all been a joke played on the American people, you won't be laughing though!
The problem that the rich and our Government are not telling you about is a little thing known as "Fiat Money." This is a term used for a money system that has no real backing, meaning gold. This Fiat System has been used several times in history, and each time, the country using this system ended up losing everything. This is where we are headed, and all the rich fat cats and Government leaders know it.
If we don't rise up and demand our leaders to stop, we are finished my friends. The Government wants you and me to think that our real enemy is each other, that's a big lie my friends. Did you know that even though you and I disagree that that doesn't bother me at all? I suggest you read the Hub "American" and we return to sanity.
In Bed With The Devil
The greatest possession, in the coming depression, will be a friend. A shoulder to cry on, an ear no longer deafened by the mad rush to nowhere.
There are already many stories of sorrow, sorrow kept silent by the media. This whole thing that is going on is such an evil plot. If you study the crash of the stock market and the great depression, you will clearly see that our government is following the exact same road map that led to the great depression.
I am continually hearing people say that our condition today is nothing like the Great Depression. Here are some links that will help you to determine the facts of our true condition.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424881,00.html
I would also point out that there is a huge difference today from the great depression. At the peak of the great depression there were only 12 to 15 million workers unemployed. What pray tell, will happen when we hit only 10% unemployment soon? That will mean that we have already reached the same level of individuals unemployed during the great depression.
And another thing, we have a much different type of person living amongst us in our day than they had during the great depression. I don't care what anyone says, a huge number of people among us today have no back-bone and will do all manner of evil to survive.
I remember the day when you got into a fight, you beat each other until you were tuckered out or someone got whipped. Today, these cowards have to use a gun, knife or anything that they can find to use as a weapon.
We have become a Nation filled with criminals, drug addicts, and even parents murdering their own children. It has become so bad, that you would be a fool to go out after dark in your own neighborhood.
For the life of me I can not understand what is wrong with us! I have warned and warned people over the last five years that this situation we are facing was imminent, and they needed to start planting gardens. Do you know that not one single person has listened. I believe it has to do with having to literally face the fact of how dire of a situation we are in.
I’ll leave you with this echoing voice of my Father’s words. When I was a child our Father constantly said, “This Nation will fall because the people no longer stand together against the evils of their Government, nor the evils next door.”
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War College warns military must prepare for unrest; IMF warns of economic riots
Deflation Has Begun in United States
- Deflation Isn't the Enemy - Huffington Post (blog)
Deflation Isn't the Enemy Huffington Post (blog) We now live in a world where deflation has become public enemy number one. In this current economic environment, governments seek a condition of perpetual inflation in order to maintain the illusion of prosperity in the developed world. and more » - 40 hours ago
- Prices climb but no deflation end in sight: analysts - The Japan Times
BBC News Prices climb but no deflation end in sight: analysts The Japan Times The core consumer price index rose 0.2 percent in April from a year earlier on higher hotel bills and TV set prices, posting the third straight monthly increase, government data showed Friday, but economists doubt the nation's chronic deflation is ... Japan: Slow exit from deflationFXstreet.com Japan Core CPI Up For Third Straight MonthNASDAQ Japan consumer prices rise spurred by higher fuel costsBBC News Pakistan Daily Times -MarketWatch all 38 news articles » - 8 hours ago
- Forget deflation, high inflation is the real enemy - Financial Times
Forget deflation, high inflation is the real enemy Financial Times This affliction has resulted in much anxious reading of the financial runes – the most revealing of which has been a paper entitled Volatility at World's End – Deflation, Hyperinflation and the Alchemy of Risk by US firm Artemis Capital (not to be ... - 15 hours ago
- Is Natural Gas a Deflation Catalyst? - Real Time Insight - NASDAQ
Is Natural Gas a Deflation Catalyst? - Real Time Insight NASDAQ We have a ton of it sitting in the ground waiting to be consumed, the price is right (super cheap) and even T Boone Pickens loves it; so why aren't we using more natural gas? Over the last 2 years or so I have been examining alternative energy ... and more » - 16 hours ago
- BOJ to keep powerful easing but can't target yen -Shirakawa - Reuters
BigPond News BOJ to keep powerful easing but can't target yen -Shirakawa Reuters * Risk aversion behind current yen moves - Shirakawa * BOJ to continue efforts to beat deflation - Shirakawa By Leika Kihara TOKYO, May 24 (Reuters) - Bank of Japan Governor Masaaki Shirakawa stressed on Thursday the central bank's resolve to maintain ... Japan Prices Rise as BOJ Target Stays DistantBusinessWeek Yen Drivers and CPIBusiness Insider BOJ Shirakawa: To keep pursuing powerful easingCNBC.com Daily Markets all 40 news articles » - 2 days ago
Matt 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Those who think that the coming depression is just media hype are clearly living in a bubble of self deception. These few people are the same crowd who refused to admit that we were in a recession. We all knew a year before the White House announced we were in a recession that we were in it.
If you follow those who are blind to what is ahead, you will fall into the same ditch they do.
To prove that things really are that bad, I heard "The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index tonight. It is only 37.7 % of Americans who are confident about this economy. That flies right in the face of those who say this is all media hype. This is the lowest level of consumer confidence since they started keeping this record 40 years ago.
"The Present Situation Index" which shows how the consumer feels about the present situation of the economy dove to 29.9%. So when I hear people saying that this is all media hype, I say to them, wake up friend and walk outside and look. It's all around you!
The Great People of America
As I have watched this Hub grow, and the comments expand, my thoughts are centered on what made America the great Nation she was. As humans we will always have disagreements because that's our nature, but when we allow those disagreements to separate us as a people, the stability of the Nation is threatened.
We have watched as over the years Special Interest groups with piles of money and political clout have pushed their agendas on America and her people.
Through the political process these minority groups have forced their will to be implemented and replace the will of the majority. These special interest groups have been witling away at our Constitution and cleverly changing the publics interpretation of its' meaning.
If we are going to survive as a Nation, we must return to the Constitution, and we must no longer become our neighbor’s enemy just because they have a different opinion.
I have special interests, you have special interests, but this does not give any of us special rights.
State of The Economy
Do you think the jobless rate the media gives us is just a bunch of media hype?
See results without votingStimulus Petition, Economists Respond To Obama, View From Economists
I found a petition online that you can sign if you object to the Governments Big Spending Bailout. It has climbed from 40,000 a week ago to 400,000 now http://www.nostimulus.com/
You may also be unaware that 200 main stream economists have signed a statement saying that they do not believe these Bailouts will help the economy. Barack Obama stated; There is no disagreement that we need action by our government, a recovery plan that will help to jumpstart the economy.
The response to the Presidents comment by 200 economists was; With all due respect Mr.President,that is not true. View it here; http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf
Here is a link to an article that will help you understand in clear english the opinions of economists from both sides. It is one of the best discussions that I have found that will help the average person understand what is going on today with the economy and especially the Bailouts and Stimulus Plan. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9931
Thomas Jefferson
Barack Obama Attacks Freedoms In America
It appears that Barack Obama's god syndrome is beginning to show. The President now thinks he can threaten Republicans for listening to Rush Limbaugh.
President Obama told Republicans to break free of the confrontational mindset of Rush Limbaugh, the radio talk show host.
Mr. Obama builds his platform on reaching out to those on all sides of issues; however his actions speak louder than his words. My message to the current President is; Mr. President you are not God, you do not have any authority to attempt to manipulate the thoughts of men, by pressuring them to not listen to opposing views.
My feeling about this is; If you can't handle the heat Mr. President, Get out of the kitchen!
Mr. President, you have not even begun to be attacked like President George W. Bush was, yet with all the attacks Mr. Bush endured, not once did this man attempt to order others to stop listening to them. I believe your actions show the traits of arrogance and conceit Mr. President.
An opposing view is nothing more than an opportunity to express why you have the opinion you have. Those who refuse to listen to opposing views are a threat to true Americans. They are a threat to the Constitution, they are a threat to freedom, and those who attempt to distinguish opposing views are two times more the child of the Devil than the ones they attempt to silence.
I was going to write a Hub on something I had learned about gold, but I just don't have the time. I will just share a short bit of what I see coming for gold.
From all the information that I have collected here is what is going to happen.
I
already knew that this Stimulus would pass, it's obvious that both
Democrats and Republicans love to spend money. By the middle of 2009 the Banks and
Corporations will grab all the available gold using the Bailout and
Stimulus funds. Soon after the Banks and Corporations grab the gold,
the economy will fall and we will enter the greatest depression the
World has ever seen. The shortage of available gold and start of the
depression will eventually drive gold to over $3,000.00 an ounce. The
Banks and Corporations will think that they have achieved their goal,
but I have bad News for them! Following this, in the name of security,
Homeland Security will come knocking with the biggest wheel barrow
they've ever seen. Believe it or not, this present administration is out to destroy corporate America. They are doing this for the purpose of taking control of business in America.
I arrived at all this from information I received from Jewelers and Precious Metals & Jems sellers about homeland security and their involvement with them. Do a search on FDR + Executive Order 6102 and when you put the two together you will see what is getting ready to take place.
It Is Too Late My Friends
It is too late to kill the beast now, we fed this corrupt system to the point that the cancer has now spread to the point of no cure. We sat back and allowed these evil men to take us over because we loved what they gave us. They created a system in which we were all dependent on them to survive. We had to have their credit and support just to manage the necessities of life. We sat back and got fat on food, clothing, houses, cars, trips, doctors, air conditioning, refrigerators, electricity, electronics, sex, drugs and money. Well, what did we expect? These evil groups were our friends as long as they fed us, but now that their evil plot is being exposed and they are withholding the goods, we make them our enemies! That is not how the game is played, we played, now we pay.
Bailout or Burial
Do you think that the Governments Bailout Plan will bring lasting salvation to the economy?
See results without votingPost Recession Spending Habits
If the recession does turn around, will you change your spending habits?
See results without votingLeave your comments or feedback. There are more comments, see the link at the bottom of the comments. No Personal or Hub Links PleaseLoading...
Poll Results:
Bailout or Burial
Do you think that the Governments Bailout Plan will bring lasting salvation to the economy?
369 people have voted in this poll.
# 94% No, it will bury us even deeper.
# 6% Yes, this is a sign of how wise our politicians really are.
My visitors were right on, now we will watch as all the so-called professional economics pros make fools out of themselves as this depression deepens and they eventually have to agree that there was never a recovery in the first place.
I do not believe that we are in a double-dip recession because we have never began a recovery from the original recession, any recovery was just a lie by the current administration.
If you readers are not scared to death of what is at hand you are either blind or dumb. You just wait a few more weeks until the Obama Lie Bubble busts and all hell breaks loose in our financial markets! You can only lie for so long about the economy improving before the real truth pokes a hole in you and exposes your deception. I'm speaking as an American, not a Democrat or a Republican. This is what you had better get back to if you are going to stand any chance of surviving the days ahead.
Hello Shawn,
Glad you enjoyed the Hub, I am just sick and tired of my older generation setting in their rocking chairs and refusing to stomp this political systems #%(*%ss.
I am sick of all the lies and half truths spewing out of the mouths of supposed educated people, I am fed up with all the lies told about how the economy is recovering, when we step outside and look the real truth in the face it makes me wonder how much longer Americans are going to set on their %$^&*ss before they stand together and march on all these fools!
I enjoyed reading your hub. I appreciate you taking on some controversial topics in your hubs. I look forward to reading more of them. Thanks for posting this.
If you are foolish enough to believe all the lies about a recovering economy, you are a fool my friends! Read the headlines coming out today in the news.
Blanchflower Sees `Growing Risk of Long Depression
With federal stimulus funds running out, economic worries grow
Ferguson, Roubini vs. Krugman: Slowdown or Depression for The U.S.
Krugman: The Third Depression
Why The Greater Depression Still Lies Ahead
Krugman: Another Depression Is Likely
The Big “D”
Real Estate Will Lead Economy into Depression
Automakers see no sign of expected recovery
In my opinion in order for the globalist mentality to work this means that the wealth on wall street etc. must be liquidated. Yes, you are going to lose everything that is connected to stocks! You just go ahead and gamble, pull that arm on the slot machine one more time, it is over folks.
Bob
Hello Eugene,
Sad that more Americans do not see what is really taking place here in America. Just like many do not get why the Government continued to extend unemployment benefits; they did it to keep people happy as they destroyed Corporations and the jobs they produce.
TO TAKE FULL CONTROL OF A COUNTRY YOU FIRST BRING IT TO ITS KNEES BY BANKRUPTCY OF MOST OF THE CORPORATIONS AND THE PEOPLE.--THE MEDIA IS BOUGHT AND OWNED, THE BANKS ARE CONTROLLED, YOU CONTROL THE FARMS AND THE WATER SUPPLIES THE ARMY IS PAID BY YOU SO THEY DO AS YOU WISH,---THEN MY FRIENDS ---YOU====ARE====SLAVES====TO THE NEW WORLD RULERS.....
SOBF, you may not have noticed but we are already in it.
born to be free - I'm curious, now that we are one quater of the way through 2010 do you still stand by your theory that we will be facing the depression before the end of the year?
outdoorsguy, what really gets me is how people will so easily sell their freedom in exchange for a handout from the Government. What the Government is doing by handing out all this free money is creating a society that is totally dependent upon the Government for survival.
Take a look at the true effects of the bailout; most do not understand that the Government used this to create an unfair competition of American corporations. By picking and choosing which corporation received the welfare package they were absolutely making the other struggling corporations the underdogs. That's just great, create an alliance between the Government and a corporation, then destroy the remaining corporations, then this unholy union becomes a giant that the masses must bow to if they wish to purchase anything.
People need to learn how to look deeper into issues or they are going to wake up one morning as slaves, we are closer than many think!
Bob
nice post born.
and as to your comment " I believe situations are created for the purpose of giving the conservatives something to focus on while all along something is going on of much greater importance. It works just like a con man does. The con will get the targets focus on something else, while at the same time they are robbing them blind. "
its dead on. I noticed a long while back, that when congress wants to pass something with out much attention, several topics are floated. Gays in the military, gay marriage are the top two currently. followed by the abortion issue. as soon as both sides are squared off and screaming at each. bills fly thru congress. pork funds, pay raises, you name it.
keep up the good work.
Just a little something for you all to think about; do you all understand what the real picture looks like in America today, when you take the mask off? Tell me friends, what would the truth look like if you removed the ongoing welfare for the unemployed in America? It would look similar to the pictures of the great depression. That is the real truth! Just because the Government is attempting to hide the truth by putting a mask on it, or telling lies about how many jobs they saved and created, this does not change the real truth. Soon all this spending is going to cripple this nation and the markets will crumble just like the old and great empire of Rome.
Hello J,
You got that right, we have already failed and are in a depression already. No matter how much this current administration lies on their website about the jobs they saved and created, sooner or later all these blind and deaf Americans who blindly follow, will wake up with no food on their table. I guess at that point they can go and put all of this administration on their bar-b-que and enjoy their last supper.
US actually failed some time ago. When the banks failed and we had to bail them out. That was when the US failed. Because from then on it was just artificial growth and trying to prolong the inevitable. We should have hit a depression back then.
BloodRedPen, hello and thanks for stopping by.
You are so right, the greatest depression this world has ever known is upon us right now. The current administration can deny facts and try to manipulate the minds of men all they want, this does not change the facts.
Oh, were we supposed to think that the spike in auto sales was supposed to be a sign that this failed administration had turned things around by dumping free money into the auto coffers? Oh, wait a minute, I almost forgot, the spike in auto sells vanished and has now crashed again. They just can not hide the truth can they?
Wake up people, do you hate the other side so much that you allow yourselves to believe bold face lies and deception? All parties in the Government are sending this nation to hell, the only answer at this point is our Constitutional right to forcefully remove our leaders and politicians from office on the grounds that they are traitors.
We had better clean out the White House and the State Houses before they all clean our clock, which is to say, do us in!
I heard a politician the other day say that the answer to all this is to use your voting power and vote out the enemy, WRONG WRONG WRONG! The only answer to removing a corrupt Government is to grab them by the seat of their pants and throw them into the gutters.
That is the right given to us the people by the Constitution, I am not pushing a riot, I am declaring that we must invoke the rights of the people. If you do not like this! Go To Hell with all these godless politicians!
Robert
Great hub - I totally agree - Obama supporters I talk to are either in denial or have voters remorse - I feel the 21s century great depression is already here
Hello Dj, thanks for stopping by. I agree that Obama is doing the best he can, as a socialist it is impossible for him to do anything other than what he is doing.
Obama obama is the greated hes doing the best he can give him a break
James, thank you for stopping by.
The spirit that was in the founders of this nation lives on, though the few rich and powerful would have us to think otherwise.
To me, this issue is no game, this concerns the life or death of a nation. The criminal acts of our politicians and leaders must be put to a stop by "We The People." It is criminal when the leaders of our nation seek to destroy the citizens and our sovereignty.
The financial policies in place at the moment are known to be destructive by most of the citizens, yet the Government continues down this path. Mark my words, this present administration will not stop this attack until they have brought the people to their knees in full submission to the Government.
The Government wants us to rely on them for all things, they will not forsake their desire to be our god.
This is a great Hub. An exhaustive analysis that I find nothing therein with which to disagree. Thank you for your courageous candor.
RLK,
You are right, this is a Depression. Let me tell you what I just seen. I visited my friend the other day and what I seen was a tormenting shadow overshadowing the city in which he lives.
When I was there just a short few months ago the neighbors were all outside chatting and carrying on like neighbors do. But this trip was not the same, they were all so depressed that I rarely seen a soul venture from the confines of their home. It was really a spooky feeling, it was as though the town had died and I had woke up in the Twilight Zone.
The day in which we now live can be summed up in one single word, "Corrupt." We as individual American people have only one meaning to Corporations and our own Government, "Numbers." ie. $. The days of being considered an individual human being are gone, we have all simply become a number with no face. This will not reverse itself. There is but one just way in which the people of America can stop this. We must support the States that are threatening to pull out of the union of the United States. We must all move from States that continue to support the Government when it tramples on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We must move to the States that support America. The Government has made it very clear that this present administration is going to go for the juggler and finish off any remains of a free people in America.
I am not going to tell others to pick up arms and force this wicked Government to retreat. But I will tell you all that the time is now ripe for several of the States to withdraw from the union of the States, and we must support them in every way afforded to us by the Constitution in order to see to it that the Constitution is restored.
I never thought I would ever consider bankruptcy as my only option...until now.
Everyone out there, this CAN happen to you too!!!
I am a Paraprofessional(I work with disabled children), and the school district that I have worked at for seven years told me in June I would no longer have a job due to budget cuts. Who is going to take care of those kids who need so much help?
Even though I have a mountain of debt($60,000. I racked up during a serious illness), I thought I could still make it work. I had always paid about 50% more than my minimum payments and was no longer using credit cards or acquiring more debt.
I figured I could just pay the minimum until I found another job, it would all be okay. I have never in my life paid a bill late, and have always had nearly perfect credit. To me bankruptcy was a dirty word.
However, everything changed for me a couple weeks ago, when two little obscure looking pamphlets from Chase came in the mail. They were a "Change in Terms" notice. Lots of legal speak, but the bottom line was this:
The very low interest( which was guaranteed until the balance was paid in full), very high balance credit cards was going to raise the minimum payment from the standard 2% to 5%.
In essence, my minimum payments of $1,350. a month would jump to a whopping $3,000. a month! Of course I cannot pay that, even if I hadn't lost my job.
How can they change the rules in mid-stream?
It's legal.
In a moment your life can change forever. I spent 25 years building up this great credit history, it gave me a lot of pride, because I worked hard at it.
I went to an attorney yesterday and filed for bankruptcy. My dream of selling my house and moving closer to my parents next year is gone. For the next ten years this will follow me. How will I get a loan(with decent interest rates) for a house near my parents?
I feel lost and helpless, and I no longer have control over my destiny.
Are we headed for a Depression? I'm already there!
Why is no one stopping them?
Madame X, Good Evening and thank you for the comments.
I was so proud of my Father and how he stood even when they had done all they could to cut his legs out from under him. I will never be a quarter of what that man and the rest of his generation were, but I can guarantee you this; what little I do have I will run with until my last breath has exited my body.
You are so right about the pre-WWII Germany mentality that is among us today. What really stands out is how they say with one tongue that they are in support of total freedom, yet when the truth comes out from their second tongue we find that they only support the freedom and rights of individuals that agree with them. As for those who disagree, they would rather see us dead and out of their hair. This is nothing but good old fashioned hypocrisy.
born to be free - I'm very sorry to hear about your Dad. I know people who have been in his situation, even though you don't state what that was outright, you don't have to. When I go over to the forums on Hubs and I see what passes for intelligent opinion, all I can think of is pre-WWII Germany. It is very comforting to know that there are some people who refuse to go into denial about this. Keep writing - we all need you :)
Madame X,
Thank you for stopping by and commenting. You know, I learned a very valuable lesson from my Parents when I was a child; "Honesty is not the best policy, it is the only policy." I came up with this saying as a result of watching my parents many times as they were confronted with issues where many would have simply twisted the truth just a bit in order to look better to people. They never crossed that line.
My Father also spoke the way I do, he payed a price for it too. I once mentioned the price my Father payed in this hub, within a few days this hub was no longer listed in the search engines. I removed the comment and within a few days the hub was re-listed. I fully understand why many would rather be silent, their fears are justified.
Madame X, as I see the facts of the situation at hand, what I see is that we in this nation are looking into the face of a dead nation. What we as a people need to watch out for are the vulture nations around us who are planning to take advantage of our rotting corpse.
Robert
born to be free - great hub! We have to say this stuff, out loud, and never, never, never, back down. No matter how much the "useful idiots" screech. You point out a lot of very useful facts and make good observations. My hat's off to you.
Good Morning dk5,
You do not know how much I wish I could just say that I was wrong. I wish I could say that our Government was for the people, I wish I could say that my Government supported the Constitution of The United States. I wish I could say that the political leaders of our Nation were not controlled by small interest groups who force the will of the very few upon the will of the majority.
I am an old man now and one thing I can say is at least I can look back in the distant past and remember a day when I had tasted freedom. How sweet a taste it was! I can remember a time when I would go to bed knowing that when I awoke the following morning I would again continue my pursuit of the continuing American Dream.
Now when I wake up every morning I face the threat of a totalitarian Government beating down my door because I have not yet ceased to dream of a free people, I feel threatened because I refuse to forget the past and support a Government that seeks to enslave the people.
I'm sorry to say "you were right." Things are looking gloomier everyday % months later.The stimulus has FAILED yet incredibly, there is talk of another stimulus. The House just passed the largest tax increase in history, "Cap and Trade." Up next, National health care. The President has already stated that we have no more money yet he continues to spend like a drunken sailor. The same people who complained about the deficit prior seem to have no problem with Obama quadrupling our debt in 5 months time. Do they love this country more than their party? I'm not so sure.
Hello Nick,
I really do feel somewhat sorry for you. From your comment it is very clear that you not only can not read, but you can only speak words in which you have been programed to speak by other citizen slaves who have also been brainwashed by a society that has turned their back on God, the constitution and the blood that was shed to purchase our freedom.
I said I was somewhat sorry because although you have no mind of your own, you freely chose to submit to the enemies of freedom. You also seem to have a hatred for Christians, I never understood this type of attitude because though you and others like you withstand anything that stands for right, goodness, and righteousness, the Christian still loves you enough to take your abuse and still pray for your lost soul. You are like so many other traitors of this Country, you neither shock me nor surprise me.
You must blindly think that because I am against the current President and his wickedness that this somehow says I support the prior President. You sure make me wonder why it is you try so hard to take the focus off of the evil of one man by bringing another into the conversation who is not even mentioned by me. My friend, I really see no hope for you. Your mind has been so darkened I personally do not believe that you will ever be able to see the light.
However, even if you do not want me to pray for your lost soul, I shall continue to do so. Only the God of Heaven can see into the very core of your being and know for sure if there be hope or not for such a one as yourself.
Your site is again a right wing, religion in your face,insult to the liberals.
Fox news on Steroids. Your foolish defense of Bush shows you are a phoney
Thank you Guy,
Everything you said is so true. Here we set silent as the captain and his merry men burn the ship. We will do nothing, even knowing that there are no life rafts waiting as the ship goes down.
We all partook of the wicked system and as a matter of fact we loved it, even to the bitter end. I have written all over the internet about the fact that we always wait until "after the fact" to fix a problem. Problem with that attitude is that "after the fact" is always too late!
For an example of how we do this, I give the prices of food as an example. I walked in to the store a couple days ago and bought some coffee. The size had shrunk from 2 lbs. 1.9 ounces to 1 lb. 11.8 ounces, and the price had risen. What is going on is the corporations are trying to hide the fact that the beginnings of hyperinflation are upon us. This is the predicted results of all the worthless money our government has printed in the form of bailouts and stimulus.
All of the older Americans who understand this principle of causing inflation through the printing of worthless paper saw this coming, but most Americans were willing to set by and let it happen in an effort to try and save their godless society. Well, it is now pay day. Keep your weapons cleaned and be ready to stop your godless neighbors as they come for what is not theirs.
Thank the good heavenly GOD someone else is out there puking their guts up like me. My entire damned family fought for these scumbags, generation after generation, myself included, only to see us fall faster than Rome in an Orgy. So be it.
People, we are EFFED bad. The Citizenry won't fight back, they are stupid, weak-of-mind, simpletons at best. They eat the trash that the Kings throw down, so be that as well. When the time comes (as it always inevitably does in every empire in existence), we won't go down burning, baby, we will go down FRYING like bacon in a hot skillet.
The ONLY fix for America, is the complete eradication of CURRENT Politicians in all forms of government, from State to Federal. Good thing the Union won the war in 1864, they really did one helluva job to screw it up, and a helluva job to job the US of A and everyone who has to work for a living.
We are coming apart at the seams, corrupt, immoral, money is God, Black is White, Good is Evil. So be that as well, go ask Rome and Egypt, empires that make ours look like a joke, and see how that turned out. In fact, ask the British Empire how it works.
Part of that true fix is to collapse, totally. We are not America anymore anyway, and have not been for damned near two centuries. Let them run us into the ground, and let the people "eat teh cakes" as one Frenchman said many years ago. THEN the "citizens" of this so-called US of A might do something, but until then, remember that to fix a system, you don't break the system, or dispose of it, you clean out everyone in the system, and then find someone who is scared of you quite badly and put them in as well.
Keep up the good work, man. I enjoyed the read.
Long Live Amerika!
America is dead.
Hello bgamall,
You sure are right about it all being a scheme hatched by both Republicans and Dems. We The People have very few, if any, friends in Government. The only hope I see for the people is the people sticking together. Other than this, I see no hope of the people ever recovering from the hell we are in here in America.
I believe that the ponzi housing scheme was indeed a conspiracy. See my dont pay credit cards website at my profile.
However, it was done by Republicans and Democrats. I am against both although the Republicans are more war oriented because of the neocons. Even Pat Buchanan warns against the neocons.
But we have both parties protecting the banks, who are at war with the American people with their plans, scams, and credit card loan sharking. We have to take action to protect ourselves from a very broken system.
Very interesting and worth me more to know about depression.Thank you!
President Bush and people there could not believe that a man like him could be a president.May be can change!
Thank you GIN,
I appreciate the efforts of all those who have commented and made this Hub what it is today.
Robert
Hello TP Gamarro,
Thank you for your comment. It is so sad how we sat back for so long and allowed things to get as corrupt as they have. I often think about the fact of how the synonym for politician, is liar! We have known for years that this has been the case, it really is time for Americans to arise and stand against those who seek the destruction of our home. Never, have I lost a battle, when I stood for what was right. The fight that is brewing as we speak will be won by those who side with right.
Good day to you friend,
Robert
great hub!! I'm impressed...
Excellent Hub and you are right the American people need to stand together and perhaps another Bston tea party, so to speak, is in order to wake up those on Capitol Hill. It's time the American people spoke out and let their voice be heard outside of the so called voters box because we all know the last election was a joke. Too many people worried about making history and not about the good of this Great Nation and now those same people are wondering what happened. You have inspired me to do a little shouting myself. Thank you! Great Hub I will pass it on!
Excellent Hub and you are right the American people need to stand together and perhaps another Bston tea party, so to speak, is in order to wake up those on Capitol Hill. It's time the American people spoke out and let their voice be heard outside of the so called voters box because we all know the last election was a joke. Too many people worried about making history and not about the good of this Great Nation and now those same people are wondering what happened. You have inspired me to do a little shouting myself. Thank you! Great Hub I will pass it on!
Good Morning Toronto12, thanks for stopping by.
I agree, I have been through plenty of recessions and the one thing that you do not do is try to stop a recession by throwing piles of worthless paper money at it. All they are doing is prolonging and intensifying future inflation.
Once the velocity of money normalizes and M3 starts expanding in a few years, we're definitely going to be experiencing double digit inflation rates. Buy real assets!
LOL Dolores : - )
haha, i misread your heading about the 700 billion dollar bailout as - the 700 billion dollar bailout will snooker America
Hello issues, I'm in agreement about a summary. I'll start getting one together, thanks for the idea. It's unbelievable that almost 20,000 have actually viewed this little Hub in such a short period of time. Besides all the comments, I have also received several emails. People really are more aware than the powers that be would like, I'm encouraged.
The third poll, Post Recession Spending Habits is really interesting in that it shows that 96 % of those polled will not spend as foolishly as they had before the recession. This is exactly what needs to happen. But at the same time big business and big government are trying to do all they can to make sure this does not happen. I hope people stick to their guns, and really have learned. If they don't, we will quickly fall again.
The other Poll, Bailout or Burial has remained at 93 % believing that these bailouts will bury us. I find that very interesting when compared to what we hear from the media and the White House, big difference there.
born to be free
I am impressed with the response to your polls and the number of comments this hub has received.
Perhaps you might add a summary to the hub to distill all these comments and post a conclusion. I doubt that newcomers to the web have followed the thread.
I personally think that we are in a new dimension even though we got there with old fashioned greed. Too many things happened to fast within the last decade or so thanks to cable TV news and the internet. The world today is a fraction of a second away.
my opinion.........
Hello Paul,
My opinion is that when hyper inflation hits and destroys the value of the dollar we will also see gold quickly rise. And of course everyone will invest in gold. But I also believe that when this takes place that the Governments will confiscate everyone's gold. It's happened before in America and I look for it to happen again.
I basically agree and I think we are headed for a serious depression. But at the same time I'm not in a panic about it. I enjoy my life and I don't need too many goodies to be happy. I think I need 3: food, music, and sex. If I get those I'm happy. And those are easy to get.
I'm buying gold and silver every month because I know the dollar is in big trouble and when people realize it there will be a big jump of value from dollars to metals. And if I'm totally wrong and the dollars stays strong, then my internet income stays strong (I love abroad but get paid in USD). I'm covered both ways. So no need to be doomsday. Just to be prepared.
Thank you Larry, lot of information but it's really worth the time reading it. I really find the poles interesting also. The one about post recession spending habits shows that 95 % of those polled will not spend like they did prior to the recession. Good for them, we all had a wake up call.
Great hub! Very informative article.
Alexius, thank you for your comment.
You wouldn't believe how large the crowd is that believe the wisdom of our Forefathers is too archaic for the present. It's the same problem we face in the Churches today; we have Bible Scholars who learn from Books, they have plenty of knowledge, but as for wisdom which comes from a deeper well, there are few.
An excellent insight. If only we had the wisdom of our founders...
Hello eovery,
I told someone just the other day that sometimes what we are focused on is controlled by the very ones we are exposing. What I mean by this is that I believe situations are created for the purpose of giving the conservatives something to focus on while all along something is going on of much greater importance. It works just like a con man does. The con will get the targets focus on something else, while at the same time they are robbing them blind.
You know the media,
I am supprised in that none of the conservative radio talk shows are saying anything about it. At least they should be, but sometimes thay have their own agenda, also.
Thanks.
eovery,
You know what's really freaky? This should be front page Media News! Can you imagine something this big, and nigh a peep? Now, people want to talk about conspiracies? Let's talk about who it is that has conspired with the entire Media and convinced them to remain silent about this!
Yeah, I found your other hub. This is freaky.
Thanks.
Keep on hubbing, and get feeling better!
hello eovery,
What I have learned is that several States are now warning this current Government that if they continue on the path they are on, in the attempt to overthrow the States authority by attacking the freedoms of the citizens, these States will consider the Government in violation of The Constitution of The United States. What they say this means is that the Governments power will vanish and the States will be under self rule until a new Government is elected.
One reason I see this heading to an all out war between the States and Government soon, is the arrogance of this present President. He has already shown America that he is unable to handle criticism. I do not believe his dictator nature will allow him to set by long before he attempts to bring the States who have made this declaration to their knees.
And it appears to me that not only does he think he is some kind of reincarnated Abraham Lincoln, there are multitudes of people who actually believe he is. I personally believe he suffers from a mental illness known as Delusions of Grandeur. The total attention he gives to Lincoln and how he constantly attempts to associate himself with Lincoln, in my opinion is a sign of a disorder.
I would love to have a professional profiler do a work-up on Obama. And while they're at it maybe I can get them to do one on me. :-)
The other hub is up.
I hope I get to feeling better too.
Thank you eovery
I can't wait to see your next hub.
I hobe you start feeling better. I am very interested in see this. Is there anyway you could e-mail me a hint of what it is you are seeing.
Of course the government is turning on us. They want a socialistic society and the power that it gives the people who run the government. The stimulis bill provides the mechanism for a lot of this to happen,
Isn't it just co-insistental that with in one month of inauguration, the congress was able to pass a bill full of pork that promotes what the democrates have been dreaming of doing for the last 40 years.
They have a dictatorship like government because there is no opposition. Reed, Puloshi, and Obama are ruling as a dictator style goverment, between the three of them, with the support of the democrat party. There is nothing to stop them except 2 senators, and the stupid republican senators folded! Here, I thought the republican were starting to wise up, but it appear that there are 3 stupid one that didn't read that did not get message. Not that I am for republicans and against democrats. I am for freedom, liberty, and less government control.
In the past we had some mechanisms for balance. This has completely been lost.
Well hope you're feeling better,
and keep on hubbing.
eovery, thanks for commenting.
You're right, one of the problems we face today is the Federal Reserve. There are many reason for all this, one more being our own Government appears to be turning on its' own people. I will explain more about this in my next Hub.
I am warning all my readers right now, there is something going on right now that will forever change this Nation, and it is not months away, it is only weeks. It's taking me a little while to get the Hub done because I am pretty ill right now.
If it comes down to where I can't finish it, I am going to send the documents to a hubber I have chosen, who I think can carry this on.
Hello Brie,
Yes, it reveals a lot. I like your Hubs Brie, keep up the good work
I'm right there with you, excellent post. Have you seen the film "The Money Masters"?
Alizure, thank you for your comment.
I am 50 years old, I too heard the same warnings from my Grand Parents and Parents. I especially remember the things my Father spoke of. Speaking of the condition of the political situation we now find ourselves in, my Father warned; This Nation will see a day in which its' citizens will no longer stand together against the evils of its' Government, the Government will expand and destroy the liberties of the people.
My Father often spoke of the days when as a young man, he would drive through Los Angeles and admire mile after mile of fruit orchards. He would then say; that is now all gone, and foolish man has replaced it all with wood, steel and concrete. He then said; the day will come when a Depression ten fold greater than the last will hit this Nation and when those in these concrete jungles have nothing to eat but concrete, they will turn on each other and blood will flow down the streets of Los Angeles.
Among other things, my Father was a Journalist. He wrote article after article exposing political and Government crimes against the people. My Dad finally stopped writing when after several bombs had been placed on numerous occasions around our home, and several death threats were received, he was convinced by Government officials that for the safety of his family he should move. To this day, I have a feeling that the same Government officials that convinced us to move, were the very ones who brought the threat. I come to this conclusion because they were the very ones that he was exposing in his writings. I'll never know for sure.
I am doing my best to complete a Hub that will prove just how much the corporate owned media hides crucial information from us. I discovered something that is happening at this very moment that should be headline News, but not a word is being spoken. The verifiable information that I have uncovered shows why the first thing removed from the Stimulus Plan was the aide to the States.
I will leave you all with this warning; you had better get off your lazy behinds right now, you had better start canning or storing food and water and other essentials right now. This next Hub will hopefully once and for all shut the mouths of all the Naysayers.
I beleive all the signs are there. Especially for the people that slip through the cracks. The poor. I see this everywhere I go. People begging for work to feed their families.
I am fortunate to live in a place where I can grow what we eat. and have stock we can use for survival. My concern is those folks who DONT live where they can grow their own food.
How will they survive. I used to listen to my Great Grandmother talk about the Great Depression. She always said.. she wouldnt live to see the next one.. but my brother and I would. I think she's right. When she was younger she had a farm. She helped feed the whole community where she was. She would say folks would bring their babies to her because they couldnt feed them. And she would give food blankets ect ect to those who needed it.
I think we as a PEOPLE no matter what nationality NEED to come together because I feel this article is right.. if we DONT come together... we will fall apart. A house divided cannot stand!
I feel that we need to get back to learning to live as our grandparents. It will come a time when food will be valued more than gold! and water to. Just remember to help those that need it.
I also feel that Mr. President along with the other officals in Washington have NO CLUE how it really is to live as some of us do. They have NO clue I would like to see THEM survive as the poor do. THEN they could REALLY say how the economy is. If they had to live 1 week as a poor person. They would understand.
Laura, thank you for your comment.
I am working on a march as we speak. I am getting all the needed information so I can't be harassed by officials along the way. To tell you the truth, I am not trying to build a march, I am just going to take off one day and head out. It turns out however it turns out. I will let you know when I am leaving.
Bibbi, thank you for the excellent comment.
I am so encouraged when I see others with their eyes wide open. As far as the political scene goes here in America, the entire system has become an oppressive thorn in our flesh. We have allowed them to corrupt us to the point that any hope of change is nothing but a ghost of an image that may never become a fact. I have no hope whatsoever that any of the current leaders in America will turn from their current path.
I believe that the majority of our politicians should be removed. You do not try to patch an ancient ship that has rotted, you get a new one.
You brought up "The American Dream" I can't remember what that really means, it has been gone for years. Oh, many were convinced by our leaders and lending institutions that they were enjoying this "American Dream" but what most were really doing was building their economic coffin. The exterior of the coffin was really deceiving, I mean, it had a nice paint job, it was covered in beautiful jewels, it was even manufactured with the most beautiful wood money could buy.
In a way, we here in America were protected from poverty, but the way most of us were protected was through the use of credit. The Stimulus Package will only make matters worse by making even more credit available and devaluing the dollar even further.
I do see a ray of sunshine in all this though, there will be a state of equality around the World, and hopefully many will return to a caring state of mind for one another.
Also, I have read your hub and I recommend my readers definitely check it out.
I too believe that the time for action is now, too many people are willing to wait until America crumbles to do anything at all; I do not feel that a peaceful march on our capital could possible do any harm whatsoever, except to maybe an ego or two; we the people need to stand together and start acting like true patriots, who believe in our country and our laws and most importantly our constitution. Please begin to prepare for a march, let enough time go by so that we can get the word out to the 65% of the people who think this is all wrong. We need to send a strong message of support to each other. Thank you for your site, good job.
Hello bgamall,
I was looking at a graph the other day that measured the value of fiat currency in America to the value of gold. What it revealed was the actual value behind a dollar is $0.04
By the time all this money is pumped into the economy the true value of a dollar will no doubt fall into the negative range. As you know, there are many factors that go into figuring out real value and what determines a Depression. One thing folks need to understand is where all this credit fits into the picture.
Never before in history, including the Great Depression, have we seen an entire Nation broke. The majority of Americans have survived on credit, now that that safety net has weekened, the end result will be a chaos unlike any Depression we have ever seen here.
I'm not going to say we are already in the big "D" word, but I believe that when those who deny it finally confess it, we will already be in a state where a loaf of bread is three times the cost it is today. These Government bailouts and stimulus are going to destroy what little value is remaining in this economy.
Thank you for the add
You are assuming that we are headed toward hyper inflation. I would say that is a possibility but it is not the likely scenario yet. The likely scenario is depression. In that case we need to spend the kitchen sink to turn the dollars over. As of now we have bank insolvency, capital flight, and deflation. That could change, but we are in a near depression and that makes your hub a possible, but not yet probable outcome.
I just hope that the stimulus is big enough. I really don't think it is.
But I am adding your hub to my group of hubs, Inflation Recession Depression.
Thanks for publishing this hub, it surely is thought-provoking. I'm writing directly from Brussels, a spit in the middle of Europe but also the head quarter of European Institutions. Here, on the other side of the world, our perception of US is surely distorted but we can maybe look at it in a more objective, even if more ignorant way. The American Dream is maybe turning into the American Nightmare. As we all depend a lot on your country a feeling of being dangerous sleepwalkers is spreading out. The world is afraid, and nobody understand what the hell is going on, the word "crisis" echoes even in kinder gardens. In this cocktail of problems and unanswered questions how are we going to improve? Time is not on our side. Half of the world is not on Your side. Everyone is yelling and longing for a change but few of us are fighting. Now, I see Obama as a potential capsizing of image. US will not have the same appearance, let's see if the substance is also going to change. I have the feeling that everything is so confused and unclear as if until now, the future is difficult to predict, the US government kept secrets from its own citizens and from the rest of the world. Why? The world cannot be a telenovela. Facts are needed, people need to know, people want to understand. I don't think that we have to learn from our ancestors as I believe that history goes in circles and that mistakes of the past are being recreated in the present. The world must have a new stable base. Less dichotomy between Reality and the soit-disant "Truth".
Best regards born-to-be-free!
Hello Rainmaker,
Isn't it a sad picture to look at? America has become nothing but a Welfare State. I would also remind people that this man setting in the White House is also one of those Senators who proudly signed the Bill and approved sending billions of dollars to Banks and Corporations with no restraints on how they were to spend it, in other words, a welfare check, courtesy of the Congress. I still remember all these Senators setting there putting on a show and talking about restraints on the TARP, but when it came right down to it, there were no restraints. Are people going to tell me that these Senators, including Obama, are so ignorant that they somehow forgot to include the restraints they had talked about? No, it was done purposely in order to send their buddies a welfare check, courtesy of every working American.
I watched Pres. Obama Town Hall Meeting in Ft. Myers, FL, and all I saw is a bunch of morons crying for more handouts.
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/watch.aspx?MediaId=HP-
Where was the American rugged individualist at this meeting? The entrepreneur? Where on the news is this elusive man or woman once considered the archetypal American?
There is not much one can say to someone who denies the age old proven benefits of lessons learned through the knowledge of history. There are principles, that as man, we have learned from the beginning of man until this very moment in time. These lessons are passed down to us in many forms, one form is through the teaching of History, another is through Religious writings and other books. To simply throw these lessons learned out the window, because these lessons go against ones personal belief, is foolishness.
In fact, if one is to deny history, they must deny their own existence. To fight against the lessons learned through history, is to make void any understanding or wisdom whatsoever.
I have found that it is usually an enemy of the Sovereignty of Americans who attack the wisdom of our Forefathers. It took the wisdom of these settlers to form this great Nation. Now that we have denied the wisdom of our Forefathers we are in danger of losing all.
I consider anyone who attacks the wisdom of America's Forefathers not only an enemy of America, but an enemy to a free World.
This Nation can only redeem itself if it returns to the very principles upon which it was founded. The evidence that nothing else works is the horrible condition we find ourselves in at this moment in time. We have allowed our Government to pass laws restricting our freedom. We have allowed our Government to enact laws that rob us. We have allowed Banks to spring up with so much power and authority that they have now raped the wallets and purses of all Americans.
We have allowed those with no morals to direct our Courts. Our Courts have been allowed to overturn laws that the majority of the people have voted on. We have allowed our Courts and the Supreme Court to put their own private interpretations on the words of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Now, let's get down to what is really going on here. For someone to ask me to give up my views about this President because their view is different, is nothing more but a request asking me to side with deception. I will not be sucked into this mans club of fans. This man is arrogant, he is prideful and he is on a mission that will pull this Nation beneath the feet of Terrorist Nations.
Yes, this is strong, that's because this Nation still means something to me. I am personally fed up with how people in this great Nation have allowed what it stood for, to deteriorate to this level. Now, you have every right to believe and say what you want to, but let me be clear, so do I. And I will stand for what I believe to be true, until the day they take my cold dead body out and bury it in the cold hard clay.
This Nation was formed because of the oppressions our Forefathers were under. We as a people are now be oppressed by Big Business and our own Government. Multitudes in America choose to just brush off this oppression, well, we can thank ourselves for what it brought us.
You can all call me a nut or whatever you choose, but don't forget who founded this great Nation; a bunch of crazy Christians with guns. I don't have a gun, but I do have a mouth, and I will use this weapon anyway I see fit in an attempt to stop people who attack my Nation and the principles on which she was founded.
GLOBAL PROZAC - THE RECESSION??
It's fascinating and even a little depressing to read the variety of comments about the current global economical situation the majority of hardworking people around the world find themselves in as a result of the short-term mentality adopted by the people in position of authority to push and pull or global financial well being. We cannot blame them alone, because we all bought into it as well. Have you every sat back and reflected on an argument you may have had with a loved one, or even someone you dislike....? Don't you just hate it when they drag everything up from the past to help justify the arguement, to justify their pain, dislike, mistrust and even self denial?
Who amongs us could go back in time and change even one second, one hour, one day or one year? non of us. No matter what we do you cannot change the last five minutes because if becomes history. Bearing that in mind, when I read a majority of the fascinating suggestions based on using someone elses history, which happened in their moment in time, to justify why the world will fail, why nations will fail, why faimilies and individuals will fail to change or rescue each other, based purely on the selfish need to be heard, similar to when we find ourself in a volitile argument, the fact remains that there are more good people in the world than bad.
Because of the way the media operates, it's primary aim is to sell us the bad new based on the few in order to galvanise our psyche into believing that most of the world is bad and that no one deserves to be rescued. That we are not our brother or sisters keeper. I did not intend to write such a long posting, but what I have noticed about our society today, is that the more dishonest people are the higher they are acclaimed, the more honest and genuine they are people seem to be seeped in mistrust of them and spend a lot of time crucifying them with the view to finding out if their honesty has a catch.
It's like the bully at school, they receive all the help from all areas of our social system to justify why they are a bully, and the victim is either moved to another school, told to keep out of the way of the bully or in some instances given the impression that they must in some way deserved to be tormented. We only have one world and we all have to live and survive with the main ingredients being clean water, clean air, healthy food, proper shelter, Good health, family, friends, love, mutal respect and security.
All of these help to make us happy and I am sure we could add to the list. I think the worlds is in a psychological and emotional depression which has been made worse by the fact that our economical foundations are now shaken to the roots. Perhaps the prozac is our recession! We could easily take any moment in history to justify what might happen again if we do this or we do that, but the greatest challenge we have is to be individually responsible by each and everyone picking up a shovel to help dig us out of this whole. The world did not start of as a capitalistic structure, people worked together as families and communities, and as these families and communities grew, the infrastructure had to change with the time.
The whole world in now in a new and challenging place and we have to open our eyes and see what the next economical generation will look like and move towards it. The banks are broke, most financial institutions and global companies are broke, so isn't is obvious where the source of support has to come from.
So 'Born to be free, your historical history lesson is based on trying to psychologically enslave people into non-action based on men from the past who could not match most childrens knowledge base and ability to debate about everyday matters today. Most of those people you have dragged up believed the world was flat and if you are going to make a comparison then it has to meet all the social, psychological, physical, ecological and political parameters.
Words are good, but action is much better.
EYEAM, thanks for commenting,
Right on, if you listened to the Presidents speach at Town Hall, you will have noticed that the stimulus is all about spending, it lays out where it will go, but it does not discuss what it will actually be spent on. The first question to Obama was from an elderly Woman who asked that exact question, the question was never really answered. His response was, well we will be creating oversite groups to watch over the money and make sure it is spent properly. What that means in Government talk is, thirty to forty percent for Government oversite.
Issues, thanks for stopping by. Wonderful explanation of what really busted the tech bubble. I'm with you on the fact that so few today really study enough history on any given subject. If they would, maybe things would have turned out just a little bit better. While we walked around with our heads in the clouds, not paying attention, these guys have managed to bring the Nation to its' knees. It does not surprise me now, that the Government is painting a picture that says; you will not survive if you do not bow to our plans and allow us to take control of the reigns.
In regards to the bailout, most things involving the government look good on the surface and then you find out the real dangers when (or if) you look at the details, usually it's too late by then. Most governmental policies rely on a bait and switch to get people to support things that are completely against their own best interests, which describes most government policy, especially those that involve funding.
I use this a lot because it is true.
Throwing money at the economic problem is like throwing explosives at a skyscraper. To demolish a skyscraper with explosives, it has to be done with a knowledge and placement of the building's load points and the detonation has to be properly sequenced. Otherwise, you won't accomplish the task.
The reason that the bailout didn't work will be the same reason that the economic stimulus plan won't work. They both don't have an understanding of the economic problem and therefore are just throwing money at it. That is also the reason why these plans have such a difficult time getting passed, no one believes that it will work.
the government doesn't seem to learn from history so they are bound to repeat it.
The dot com boom to bust was the beginning of the current mechanisms that broke the economy. These mechanisms include greed, deviation from prodent business dealings, credit to those that cannot pay it back, investor speculation that creates its own end result and using ponzi and pyramid techniques.
The dot com had most if not all of these factors.
I won't go through all of the boom to bust scenarios but just as an example I will go to the dot com.
The dot com deviated from all prudent investmet procedures. Only with a penny stock would such risks have even been thought about. Two traditional apporaches to stock market investiong is the fundamentals and the technicals. Without too much detail they both analyze the company, one by evaluating the company and its management and the other by analyzing its track record and the industry it is in to companre both.
The dot com pushed the stocks of unknown companies to blue chip platinum prices in a matter of months. Many of these companies were brand new and had no track record. The management of some of these companies had some track records but not with this company or its product. Most companies didn't have an income, most had no working product just an idea, those that had a product had no real revenue from it. Without going through the rest it is suffice to say that there were major question marks on all of the traditional criteria that investors buy stock in a particular company. Most of these dot com companies folded causing the bust. The reason that they folded was a lack of possessiong the fundamentals that make blue chip companies successful.
The real benefits of these schemes go to its creators and everyone else just provides them with the winning ingredient, greed.and their hard earned dollars.
Analzye the economy and see if this doesn't still hold true today.
Welcome back Maven,
I see all this the same way, nothing but predictions and theories being passed off as facts. I can hear it now, when this has totally buried us, we will hear a great Town Hall speach in which the President will proclaim; "I'm sorry, but do to technical difficulties and unforseen events beyond my control, every American is now totally screwed, and we are now in a state of survival of the fittest." "Look, I,I,I expect you all to focus on our future recovery, and don't listen to those who say you are broke, remember that facts are meaningless, the truth is not what you see, it is what you believe to be true that really matters.
We had a weatherman ( TresSec Geithner ) trying to do just that this morning....lots of numbers, lots of predictions, few facts....we don't even know what the effects have been for the first round of the TARP bailout on the economy. This rush to pass this new stimulus bill, without even knowing the details, is senseless and reckless.
Shouldn't we at least know what has happened to the first TARP installment before we shell out even more cash ..? Where is the transparency, the accountability so valued by the Obama administration..? Who is running the country, Obama or Pelosi/Reid..?
bgamall, Jennifer hello
As you know, I disagree with this stimulus. I disagree because the fact is that the only thing it will accomplish is to pump more air into an economy ballon that is already threatening to explode because of debt.
What we are not being told by our Government and Big Business is the fact the China is at this very moment positioning themselves to call in all their debtors and demand payment of all debt in the form of Gold. This will either cripple Nations or start WWIII.
The other thing to remember are the numerous examples we have of all the Countries who have gone down the path we are now headed. Argentina and other South American and African countries who did what we are now doing, entered into a state of hyperinflation.
A more recent example of huge printing of money is Zimbabwe. Their inflation has gotten so bad because of the injection of worthless money into the economy that they had recently created a Bill with ten zeros. Recently a loaf of bread cost billions of dollars, yes billions.
After WWI Germany's Weimar Republic's started printing so much paper money to pay off their WWI debt, that the German Mark finally lost its' value and destroyed the economy. All Historians agree that this is what led to the rise of the Nazis.
Between 1921 and 1929 the U.S. Government increased the money supply into the economy by 61.8% The result was high inflation and then hyperinflation, which finally led to the Stock Market Crash and the resulting Great Depression.
All Americans should be alarmed that the system used to track the percentage of money supply by the Government was removed just as we began to enter the recession. The M3 Money Supply was used by Economists to track the depth of recession, now you tell me why this was removed.
It is my opinion that if this tracking device were still allowed we would see a number greater than the number that resulted in the Great Depression.
I don't need a weatherman to tell me which way the wind is blowing.
I am against the bailout too, but Bush wasn't doing any better at stopping the recession than Obama is and Obama has only been President a few weeks. In fact Bush denied that we were in one for a very long time. At Obama realizes that we have a problem.
Even Obama hinted at his press conference that you cannot rekindle the massive and irresponsible credit bubble again and that we have to make things to prosper. He knows we are in a tought spot. But doing nothing will probably make things worse. We can only lump through until some country prospers enough to buy our stuff. That may be China or India which are selling cars like hotcakes.
Hello Lwelch, thanks for commenting.
I don't need the News to tell me things are falling apart, all I have to do is step outside and look at all the car lots that have shut their doors. All I have to do is open my eyes and count all the empty homes down my street and all throughout my city. All I have to do is look at the huge lines lined up outside buildings where there are only a hand full of jobs available. No! I don't need the News to see the truth.
I suppose that "SOME" means different things to different people. In the case of our economic condition some how I think the word "some" grossly understates all the visible facts all around us.
I have been here for 50 years and I have never, ever, seen the United States in such a horrible economic condition.
I know there is a movement out there that tries to push a message that this is all some how just a state of mind, this group in my opinion are simply blind to facts. I have no other explanation for someone who denies all facts for the purpose of pushing their view.
This thing is real and in my opinion only a foolish person would deny its' existence. This is the very crowd who choose to live in the dark who will be the first to fall when the bottom disappears.
I had a customer come in a few months back and ask me why car prices were still plumetting while gas prices were down. That was a hard one to explain. This is a guy who LIVES here is a CITIZEN but DOESN'T watch the news....
People as me lots if lending has changed. I sell used cars. Interest rates are up 1-2% in some cases. There are no changes in the number of approvals, the sub prime lending, the prime lending, or down payment stipulations. I have plenty of loans to get people.
Another interesting thing - last month we EXCEEDED budget. Budget was based on last year's numbers so we did BETTER selling CARS than last year!
On the other hand, my boyfriend just was laid off and another friend's husband has been put on 1 week of unpaid leave.
I do see the trauma that is going on but I think it is mainly due to mass panic. Some jobs are gone and some markets are a mess but we have people who are stable and employed. These people are too afraid to spend money due to the news...
first of all the value of the dollar has been worthless for years! what does a dollar buy these days? junk food that corporations can afford to sell it for that much. a dollar does not go very far. government has been printing more money than we have so that's why the dollar is worthless. economic slump? hell with that, there's nothing wrong with the economy, it's the people being idiots and not realizing just how much they have. so what? are you afraid you're gonna lose your flat screens and other useless 5h!7? there are worse things happening in the world than the USA. this country sucks! i'm leaving, there's a world to be saved and it only starts with one person. good day!
Thanks for stopping by Hameed, I hope you enjoyed the site.
Very interesting article.
Re: Maven101
"I look to Texas or some other powerful state to say enough is enough and get out. I really believe we are seeing the beginning of the breakup of our wonderful nation...God help us all."
Interesting you say this. A well-known Russian forecaster predicted the USA will break up into regions as it is the beginning of the end of the USA. It is pretty bad in many parts and it does not get news coverage. No wonder some foreigners return home when they can live a better and less stressful life in their home country vs. USA. So, who will be ultimately blamed for bringing our country down, Republicans? Some things are just too complex to unwrangle when the spinsters of each party continue with their idiotic shenanigans.
Hello shipsuperstore, thanks for stopping by.
That's the truth about our kids. I always put it to people this way; you are a mirror and what you are is cast out like an image in a mirror onto those around you; so don't put all the blame on another, it may be it is just a reflection of yourself.
Motherofthecommune, hello and thank you for the comment.I walked down my street today and counted the homes that have been lost so far, 25% of the homes have been lost. Twenty five percent of my neighbors are gone (A Tear). Most of them lost their job, their home, friends and neighbors, everything.You know what I can't understand, how people do not understand that the economy balloon is the same as the housing bubble. They both work the same way. Home prices get inflated and pump the balloon up until it bursts. The same thing happens when you pump worthless paper money into the economy. You keep pumping it in and it will explode. And let me tell you, all these temporary fixes that they are pumping in will make this explosion so loud and powerful that few if any will survive the explosion. This is why I keep telling people that we need to let it die. The more we pump air into it the worse it will be.Look at the Governments answer, what does it do? It entices people to continue to buy homes and cars they can not afford, geeessss more credit. That's really sick to me. They just can't settle with the fact that the middle class and poor can't afford these things even with a stinking discount. Why don't these blind politicians understand that after most working people pay for food, gas, clothing etc. they are broke?No, they will not do anything about the over priced staples that keep us broke. I hope people do not fall for this snare because what will happen is this bailout of air will help some for a very short time, they will buy into the false hope, use more credit, and then when the realize this bailout really didn't work, multitudes are going to be stuck yet again with cars and homes they can't pay for.
Robert, If you lived somewhere warm we could talk!! Just Kidding. This is a great post-I just discovered hubpages. I like that there are many viewpoints-much to sort out as I seek to be one who holds the leadership accountable. That starts with me, thus there is a great need to be informed.
I am not an economist. I am an accidental business-woman who after 19 years am fast going down due to the economy. From where I am sitting it looks like a depression. I talked to a realtor about selling my home, workshop, office and acreage because it may be the only honourable way to become debt-free without defaulting. It breaks my heart, but freedom from the bondage of debt looks better every day. The debt wasn't frivolous, but three years of a major downturn where I live has left me extended beyond recovery. I am luckier than many. This is not a sob story but an attempt to give relevance to my comments.
The fact that I chose to acquire debt to "Save" my business didn't work. At first I did it to make payroll, to support the families that had supported me. After 6 months I realized I couldn't do that any longer so laid off my 3 employees who made every day a joy to come to work. But there were still the vehicle payments, insurance, fuel, supplies.... and not enough work despite being a one person outfit with a second job. To keep it going I accrued more debt. And now it is too big and I am about to lose all of the material things I have worked for.
The point is this. If adding debt as an attempt to solve a business downturn failed despite extreme cost cutting measures, second job, etc., why do we believe that if the government does that on a scale a bazillion times bigger will work any better?
It is not that I am (arguably)so bad at business, but when there is a 90% drop in demand over a year's time, and a drop in a total of three years such that 500 jobs became 20 jobs-there is no way to survive. Multiply that by everyone in my small industry. And all the jobs related in the larger industry that provided my work.
Yet the government is talking of a stimulus package to big government-just give me $100,000 of that and I will take care of my own for several years! Do they have a secret stash or a pot of gold to get that money? Anyone believe that? I doubt it.
In my state, we have tried to get funding for a bypass for 25 years. This is the area of the state that drives the entire economic well-being of the state, but there is no money to build a bypass. Yet the government believes they can suddenly produce money to create a stimulus package and fund hundreds of roads and other infrastructure when myriad of projects have been unfunded for decades.
And we want so badly to believe in the financial fairy tale that I have yet to hear anyone in congress ask where the money is. Why does massive debt implode small business, the housing market, healthcare.... yet not the government. Answer-the stimulus package won't work. The money spent to date has done not one thing-unless you count $1400.00 trash cans.
Solution? I have none. I am not a money whiz. But I believe with all my heart that it starts with personal integrity, caring for your family, neighbors and larger community, letting go of greed and embracing simpler lifestyles. I said I am about to lose my material wealth, but life is so much more, friends, family community and I retain all of that! Maybe our votes won't make a difference to anyone, but I intend for my life to do so.
Right on target Born to be free. I call it the new world order.
Better hunker down for a few years of reality. Our kids are either survivers or victims, depends on what they learned from us
Hello Robert,
Best of luck to you there in Ontario. You've seen this coming for ten years, I hope your stocked up and ready!
Good Day To You Maven,
I was really hoping that this person was the promised one, the genius that I am praying stops by and puts this all together and makes us look, well, silly....maybe next visitor. In the mean time, I'll leave the rant there for those who wish to continue their education. I'm trying. Great Day To You Maven.
b2bf
I am fourty two
I have said for ten years this was coming
I just want to marry a good woman ONE WOMAN FOR LIFEand live in ontario work the garden
grow our own meat
and wait for the ten year depression to be over
I am fourty two and finding woman that want a marriage is next to impossible
Still waiting for econmajor to offer up HIS solution..or even a tiny suggestion..All I got out of his rant was...well, a rant..
In my last post, I said; "It is clear that your views are narrow, just like mine and every other poster here."
Don't take this as an insult please. I have explained my opinion on this before. My point is that because there is a limit as to the amount of information our brain can process, our opinions are limited to a degree by this lack.
We can learn and "grow as we go," but it is an unending process. I would be a fool to think that my opinions were opinions to end all opinions. In saying all this, the bottom line about this subject of the economy is that we have many differing opinions, many of which can not be proven or disproven at this point.
Many have watched as me and Ralph have gone back and forth with our opinions, if you think that I discredit Ralph's opinions you are very wrong. It is the free minds and debates such as this that make this Nation, or what is left of it, such a wonderful place to live. In fact, what kind of men would me and Ralph be if we did not voice our disagreements? Thank God that we are not a bunch of Robots who can only speak what their Masters dictate.
econmajor,
You have missed the real point of this Hub, I welcome your total criticism because it adds another view and opinion of someone else little box they live in. Your views, just like mine and all my posters, are views arrived at by the information we choose to drag into our little box we live in.
One thing I will tell you is that my comments and those of my posters are just as valid a view as yours are. For instance, you give examples of how certain policies caused the Great Depression, but inside your little box you can not see that the policies you are suggesting are nothing more than a theory being offered as an alternative.
You limit the cause of the Great Depression to one cause because inside the box you live in, that's the information you see. Others, inside their little box would say that no matter what anyone did, the result would have been the same because the economy was inflated to the point that it had to burst.
One thing I would also say is that there are many helpful comments on this Hub that you appear to just simply turn a blind eye too. It appears that you came here looking for some kind of answer that to this point no living economist has even been able to supply. It is clear that your views are narrow, just like mine and every other poster here.
Thank you for participating in the Hubpages community.
I came around here hoping to see discussion of the economic situation and possible solutions. What a shame that instead I found useless and utterly uninformed diatribe.
Let's see, we have a bunch of pre-industrialism Thomas Jefferson quotes taken without any larger context and applied to a post-industrial economy, wild-eyed squawking about greedy corporations and banks, demonizing of all polititians and especially Obama, and...wait for it...not a single hint of any understanding of economics.
There's so much whacked-out stuff up there that I'm not going to even scratch the surface, but I'll mention a couple of things.
First off, you say that Obama is "attacking freedom" and has a "God complex" because he's urging conservatives not to listen to Rush Limbaugh. Now, let me get this straight...he's not, say, *passing a law* prohibiting Rush from saying things, or people from listening to him, right? You say he has no right to "manipulate the thoughts of men" ...but isn't that the whole idea of the "bully pulpit?" The entire point of rhetoric is to influence people's thoughts. You are hoping to do the same thing by writing this hub, and yet I don't think you have a "God complex" because you're telling me not to listen to Obama. It is completely and unequivocally Obama's right to ask people not to listen to someone; whether they follow his advice is their business.
Secondly, if you're going to talk history, how about using an appropriate parallel instead of a bunch of pre-industrial ideas from before there was even a business cycle. Periods of recession and expansion as we know them weren't even around during Thomas Jefferson's life. I'd go into detail about this, but you'd need to have at least one or two econ courses under your belt, which you obviously don't. Perhaps you could look here and wade through: http://www.scribd.com/doc/9719227/null
Anyway, the point is that the only reasonable historical parallel to our current situation is the Great Depression. And at the beginning of that crisis, when it was still just a bad recession, we had a Treasury Secretary who thought much as you do. His name was Andrew Mellon, and he suggested the government do nothing and let the economy implode and be rebuilt from scratch. He said it would make people more virtuous and harder working. He said government bailing people out would make the situation worse and so on and so forth. He sounded just like your hub. So, following your advice, the economy sank into total and abject ruin, and by the time FDR came in to fix things the unemployment was 25%.
FDR came in with the New Deal, and within his first term unemployment was down to 9%. Still no picknick, but back into recession territory.
So sure, tell the government not to do anything because it'll only enrich the corporations at our expense. Good sound bite, but let me tell you it wasn't the rich industrialists who were clustered in the hoovervilles unemployed and starving the last time that theory was tested out. It was us.
One intersting thing is that one of the last things Bush warned about before leaving office was for all Nations to resist Protectionism due to the economic down turn. You can view the Press Release here; http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/11/22/bush
London, Just for the record I would also say that this could or could not be protectionism. Ralph's' point is valid and only time will tell if this is or is not some form of protectionism.
Obama has requested Congress remove the "Buy American" from the Bill.
Thanks, I'll look out for that.
Good Morning Ralph,
I agree with all you said there. Also it's just a plain old cold hard fact that trade between Nations is always hard hit during times of great economic recession,depression. Every Nation needs to understand this fact and act like adults.
Paraglider,
Yes it is. Couple more days.
LondonGirl, protectionist sentiment is rising in the U.S. One reason for this is that although the majority may well be receiving the benefits of free trade the downside of trade is being visited on the workers who are losing their jobs as a result of cheap inmports, principally manufacturing workers in the Midwest for whom little is done to compensate them for the loss of their jobs, reduction in income, decline in the value of their homes, loss of health care and so forth. They find it hard to see the fairness of being expected to compete against workers in Asia who work long hours for low pay in unsafe, unhygenic, polluting plants. If more is not done to assist workers who are being crucified on the altar of free trade protectionist sentiment will continue to rise. The rampant greed of Wall Street bankers and unbridled CEO greed and corruption also are undermining the faith of many Americans in their democratic free enterprise system. The failure of the regulatory authorities in recent years to do their jobs out of doctrinaire libertarian, free market philosophies has also caused many to lose faith in a largely unregulated market system.
Greetings - you said you were researching the gold standard and were just about to launch a new hub on the subject. Is that still in the pipeline?
There is, one is that U.S. steel has to be used on infrastructure projects. Europe, Canada and Australia are already voicing there opinions.
I understand there are some protectionist measures in the stimulus bill, for example.
Hello LondonGirl, Thanks so much for stopping by. Restraining trade between nations has always been a problem especially during tough economic times. It usually doesn't help matters much either. Hopefully I am wrong about all this and it will all turn around, but I really can't see that happening. I really do see this Fiat Money System on the verge of going under. These world wide bailouts may plug a few holes in the leaking bucket for a short period of time, if I were people I would use that short span of time to prepare. Really, it needs to be done now, but most people nowadays usually wait until an event happens before preparing for it....
P.S. Cute Kid....
glassvisage, there's lots to take in for sure, I enjoy it, that was my goal of the Hub, I wanted a spot where all the views on the current economy could be put together. Thanks for stopping by.
I think one of the potential real problems is protectionism - creeping in already.
Whew! I think I need to do more research before reading these posts!
Hello kenderso,
I'm pretty sure they will work out something, both sides love spending.
It will be interesting to see if the Democrats and Republicans can finally put aside their differences in the face of American disaster. I feel we have a very well spoken, calm, and optimistic President. But do we have a President that can "move" both sides of the house to agree on what is best for the country.
The Stock Market is a Corporate Casino, many played the machine and the Casino won. I am not saying this to be a hard nose, but that's how the Market works.
People also should have lived within their means instead of trying to be like the Jone's. This is a fact, most people I know who have, or had Credit Cards, used them for things they could have done without.
Even the filthy so called Prophets in the Churches have preached nothing but the pursuit of money and greed for the last twenty years. Our whole society became searchers of more "Things." Now we got bit by what we pursued! I'm sorry but now it's payday.
We the people, as a whole created this Beast, now we ran out of food to feed it, so I say, let the Beast die! We will need to change our lifestyle, but if we put as much energy into this as we did creating the Monster, we will survive and rise above it.
I'm reminded of a verse in the Bible; Sin is pleasurable for a season, (then payday arrives.)my addition.
The answer certainly is not to return to the same point that brought us to our current problem, Big Spending by our Government, Corporate Greed, Consumer Debt and on and on. I have given my opinion as to the answer. I will repeat it; The economy must die. That sounds cruel at this point but as long as we continue this ridiculous spending it is only delaying for a moment the inevitable. I will say also that that is exactly how tyranny of a Government expands. They begin to use what seems to be credible reasons to invade public and private liberty. This mentality started with Bush and is being watered under the current President. The Government has become too big and in the process turning against Americans by destroying liberty. Of course many will side with them in hopes of a better tomorrow, but the hope being offered is a false hope. One thing for sure, we will all no for certain who was right and who was wrong shortly.
As is Ron Paul, you are spouting vacuous generalities and no solutions for getting us out of the current deep hole. As was true in the Great Depression balancing the budget is the exact wrong thing for the government to do. Freedom to be unemployed or for your IRA to disappear isn't what we need. Freedom for unregulated crooks on Wall Street and mortgage brokers and corporate CEOs is what has us looking down a bottomless abyss.
I would also like you all to know that this is not about Republican or Democrat either, it is about what I believe is right. And by the way, I do not approve of some of the things Mr. Bush did either. At one point during his Presidency, I even came up with a clever domain name for one of my clients, "DethroneBush.com" They had so much trouble with .mil attacking their firewall that they gave the name up.
I want you all to take time and study what our Founding Fathers said. Do you all understand that even with all our fancy book learning that we have totally lost the ability to apply wisdom? Listen to the way these men spoke! Look at the passion that drove these men. Look and listen to these men and you will understand what it took to form this great Nation. It will take no less wisdom, passion and courage to restore it. I am honestly at the point of telling this entire political system to get the hell out of my Country and get back to the prisons our Forefathers left.
Hello Ralph, The main reason I have Mr. Paul here is because of his standing against the Governments involvement in the freedoms of Americans. I will stand beside the very men who founded this great Country, even if their wisdom is not accepted by those who call slavery, liberty.
To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. .I place economy among the first and most important of republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. – President Thomas Jefferson
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Benjamin Franklin
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! -Patrick Henry to the Virginia House of Burgesses, 1775
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine
There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
In matters of Power, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution. – Thomas Jefferson
When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. – Thomas Jefferson
The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. – Thomas Jefferson
The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. – Thomas Jefferson
I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive. – Thomas Jefferson
Resistance to tyranny is service to God. – James Madison
Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day. But a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly proves a deliberate systematic plan of reducing us to slavery. – Thomas Jefferson
Experience [has] shown that, even under the best forms [of government], those entrusted with power have, in time and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. – Thomas Jefferson 1779
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson
To say that a bad government must be established for fear of anarchy is really saying that we should kill ourselves for fear of dying. – Richard Henry Lee (1732- 1794), Member of Continental Congress, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, U.S. Senator
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. – James Madison (1751-1836), 4th U.S. President
It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. – Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
Here is what Herbert Hoover said about the role of the government:
"The sole function of government is to bring about a condition of affaires favorable to the beneficial development of private enterprise." (1931). Roosevelt and his advisers introduced a new philosophy that held that Americans had responsibilities to one another, and that government had a duty to invervene when capitalism failed. (Russell Baker in The New York Review of Books, Feb. 12, 2009)
Ron Paul, echoing Hoover, doesn't have a clue--crisis due to "under-regulation."
TeresaE,
Thank you for taking time to comment. I think for the most part your #2 figure is exactly how a caring people and Nation is supposed to work. When we take into account that those top 5% of tax payers are only able to amass there great wealth by the other 95% of tax payers filling up their coffers through the purchase of their products. As far as the % of tax goes, that number is correct, but the other 95% contribute to the economy by spending most of their available earnings at the various companies owned by the top 5% of tax payers.
I'm with you, I think we as a Nation have passed the point of ever returning to being the great Nation we were. We have allowed the destructive special interest groups to divide us as a people. The worthless vomit spewed out of the mouths of College Professors since the 60's has just about smothered our Nation.
Wow, great hub.
But, even as most here agree things are much worse than we are told, we infight, point fingers and blame the opposite side to our own "truth".
United we stand, divided we fall. We have fallen.
The left wants to blame Reagan and Bush, the right Carter, Clinton & Pelosi.
They are all right.
Both sides have done this to us and even those that are seeing the truth don't really see reality. After 3 years of intense research and reasoning, this is what I now know.
1. The government works for the taxpayers.
2. Less than 5% of American citizens are truly taxpayers, the vast majority of us take more than we actually contribute. And yes, I know that most do not believe this but it is very true.
3. Corporations are required by IRS definition and law to be profitable.
4. The most profitable companies and individuals pay the largest share, and largest portion of their earnings, in taxes. (progressive income tax rates, property tax based on home value, not use of city services, etc.)
5. All laws are written to benefit #4, while placating, gifting or giving a false sense of "security" to #2.
Meanwhile, we keep arguing about gay rights, drug laws and birth control--just as the multi-nationals and politiicians want us to.
Sadly, I have come to the final conclusion that this is the end of our way of life, our country and our greatness. In short, we are Rome. When Rome fell the world was plunged backwards in time. Centuries of progress were wiped out and the survivors still stood around passing out blame as they starved to death in homes without heat or running water--both of which Rome had centuries before.
Pretty much sums up the current mess.
Good luck to us all.
Barrack Obama have a good but then all the policies is already written and bond with US government to back Obama don't see this coming, but i'll bet that Obama will work hard to make things write espcialy for the economic slowdown which is killing us right now
Hello Falcon,
What kind of people are we? We think it is some kind of joke when we all know the synonym for politician is liar! Some how I just do not believe that our Founding Fathers would have sat around and taken this kind of mockery. Liars, cheats and thieves, and we allow it. In fact, we support it by continuing to pay taxes. People think I am wrong by saying this, again I quote Thomas Jefferson; To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson... This man calls it Tyrany! Wake up and stand up people..........
I second that esocial, no matter what any one may think about Bush and the war, these Americans freely volunteered to protect us all. Everyone talks about Heaven, but I’ll tell you what, I’ll take my place at the end of the line, anyone that lays down their life for the sake of others will be the first ones through those golden gates.
Very wise article on our current state of the union. I have been following the decending trend for the past several years, and i must say that most people are truly unaware of the dire straits this country, and world economy is in. This plan is doomed to fail from the beginning. We have lost so much in so little time thru greed, corrupt polititians, the SEC etc, that recovery is highly unlikely in the near future. There are so many elements that tie into this downfall like morals, ethics,illegal immigration,the loss of free enterprise, and the insidious loss of free speech as witnessed by our messiah president naming Rush Limbaugh as one we shouldn't listen to, the socializing of our country, and the incredible debt to countries that years ago were our enemies. These are truly scary times...I believe the worst is yet to come...let the opposition speak! We must take a stand, and not let the forces that got us where we are succeed in our demise..
Another "Thank you" to the troops from here, too!!! Kudos for excellent work 24/7 for us :) You guys and gals ROCK!!
Hello dlarson,
Sorry to here about your situation, I pray things work out soon. Many that visit this Hub think the information is just a joke, that is until they become one of the statistics! Honestly, I am just about fed up with all that is going on. I may be alone, but soon I am starting a march from central California to Washington D.C. with plans of arriving on July 4. Besides all the economy stuff, I will be demanding the resignation or impeachment of the President. He swore on the Bible that he would uphold the Constitution of The United States, he has violated this sacred oath when he tried to pressure Republicans to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. It is their Constitutional right to listen to whom soever they choose. I don't listen to the man myself, but no man, especially one sworn to uphold the Constitution, is going to try and pressure me into not listening to anyone. That's it, this President has crossed the line.
Some of you may not like this statement, but honestly, what would you think if I tried to use the power of my position to attempt to stop you from reading a certain Hub because I disagreed with that Hub, be honest.
Thanks to our "great" economy - and ignoring the "conspiracy theories", I have now joined those in the tent cities (RV cities mostly). I don't know what is going on with the whole unemployment thing for everyone else, but I'm literally burning my "red tape" to stay warm. I get multiple letters requesting more information and it all serves to delay the State (Washington in this case) from paying any benefits. So much for Social (in)Security! I doubt that I have even become an unemployed statistic yet - nor have they officially foreclosed on my house (although we have moved out and into an RV). If you ask me, the statistics on the homeless and jobless are much lower than reality.
Just wanted to leave a thank you note to all those over at military.com for all the comments at Point-Counterpoint and for their service to our Country, and thank you for standing in harms way for all of us.
bgamall,
It's unbelievable to me how many people think this all just some kind of conspiracy theory. This is all provable facts if people would simply check them.
For instance, how many people were made aware that The Federal Reserve chose to stop producing the M3 money supply index? This index is used by economists to keep tabs on the increase in the money supply. Economists know that when the Feds increase the money supply it results in a devalued currency. At the very moment the recession had begun the the M3 money supply reported an annual increase by around 16 to 17 percent. Upon seeing this number, the Feds stopped tracking this and no longer report this number.
Now that's a fact, ask any economist.
Agreed. I like your definition of Fascism. It fits our government to a tee. It was never quite so bad as with the government turning away from sound underwriting to screw the American people. Greenspan said in Feb 2004 that adjustables were a better deal for the American people. He is the same guy who told Bush to secure the oil ministry in Iraq first thing. The fed is part of the fascist neocon plot!
Welcome back bgamall,
I define the American fascist as a person or group who create conflict for the purpose of extending their influence over others, for the purpose of gaining more money and power regardless of the human suffering it causes. This disease is already spreading across the World, and has already covered most of America like an out of control blaze.
I agree, some credit is useful when applied properly. But even this has been abused to the point that it is no longer a tool but a nail in the coffin.
I hope you are wrong about the currency but I believe that things are moving that direction. However, nationalistic fascism will then be replaced by worldwide fascism. That could be a problem that is even worse.
With regard to credit, I believe there are two kinds. There is a necessary credit in the basic use of man, business, etc, that is paid back by profit. Then there is a speculative credit that the rich use to impoverish the poor. We have seen that no more greatly manifested than through the Bush admin. He is the most blatant fascist in the history of America. I hope your readers would take the time to look at my hub, "Is America a Fascist Nation" because I think the aware left and the libertarian right can see the failings of corporate fascism which really was never based upon free markets, or we would have subsidized oil companies no more than alt energy throughout these years.
Hello bgamall, great insight.
I checked out your Hub and I do recommend my readers take a look.
The way I see it is that there is only so much real money in the World. In order for the "Machine" to continue to grow, it must be fed. The only way to feed the machine when all real value is gone, is credit. If all you feed the machine is air, eventually the machine has no choice but to die.
I also believe that there is much more at play here than the surface issues we are focused on. I honestly believe that nothing we do to try and correct the economic situation will work. I do not think that Governments, worldwide, are truly concerned about the worldwide economic fall. I see it all as a concerted effort to break the will of people in an effort to expand the idea of a one world currency, a one world governing body. I am afraid that most will go for this in the name of survival.
I agree with you that there is asset deflation. And because of all the debt, America has a problem jumpstarting the economy. The only thing we have going for us that government debt as a percentage of GDP is lower in the USA than other countries!
When FDR went back to fiscal responsibility in 1937, the economy tanked again. The unemployment rate had been brought down from about 25 percent to 11 percent in the years before 1937 but shot up again.
You need to understand if you don't already that although Fannie and Freddie started the subprime mess, we would be ok if it were just subprime. Come and see my hub "Class Warfare". The alt a and toxic loans to prime borrowers is gig to be worse than subprime, and that was caused by Alan Greenspan in his desire to pump the economy to finance the Iraq oil war.
Fannie and Freddie at the time could only lend up to 417K. But the median price in California was 500k. Alt a and prime lending there was the heart of the bubble in the eight largest economy in the world. Cali may still take down the banks which probably need to be nationalized, cleaned up and returned to private ownership.
We are in a major deflation. Mainstreet needs help, but unfortunately the house values are still too high and they need to come down alot in California.
Welcome back Gary,
Totally right, the Federal Reserve is nothing but a monopoly. Being a monopoly they have become and have always really been Dictators. When we put all the pieces together, The Federal Reserve, Corporate Greed, Government Greed, Personal Greed, Lust For Power and Control, and the list goes on and on, it doesn't paint a very pretty picture.
The Real Tomato, thank you for commenting.
You are right, we all have something to add. When we as humans understand that as individuals we are limited as to how much information our mind can attain and process, we can then understand our need for each other. I certainly understand that I am no genius, so I do depend on the thoughts of others. One purpose of this Hub is to expose all the different ideas contained in many individual boxes. The reader can then be exposed to things outside the little box they live in.
Though I have my opinion of the matter, I fully understand my need to at least listen to the views of others. I hope that all my visitors understand that although my opinion is strong, and may fly in the face of their opinion, I do not discredit their view, nor do I believe my view is "The Answer."
We all state the view from the little box we live in, and who knows, maybe a genius will stop by and put it all together in such a way that a plan is birthed that actually works. We just never know.
Listen guys, there are tent cities now popping up all over America. We all need to understand exactly the way in which 'fiat currencies' work; all of us, from the upper-middle class, to the lowest of the lowest class have been seriously duped by this system. It is, more or less, a gigantic pyramid scheme, and unfortunately, we all operate accordingly at this point in time. The Federal Reserve System is, in all actuality, a lot less complicated than our prestigious educational institutions and the major media would make it seem. If one were to truly study up, he would find that the initial, and most likely intentional collapse of the stock market in 1913--the year in which the fiat currency of the Federal Reserve System was nationally implimented--parallels the current global situation quite uncannily. I encourage all of you to read a book called 'The Creature from Jeckyll Island' by G. Edward Griffin.
Please.
To Ralph Deeds: I understand your skepticism and your natural inclination to doubt worldviews which you regard to be born of peoples' blind and unwavering beliefs in 'conspiracy theories.' There is absolutely nothing wrong with adopting such a position, and on the whole, such a skeptical vantage point is healthy. However, I strongly encourage you to do some serious research into the subject of the Federal Reserve System, and unsound, fiat currencies before you draw and promote any permanent conclusions on the issue. We are in dire need of highly intelligent thinkers who are holistically informed on the subject.
Born to be free- This last year I have become alert to the fact that there is something wrong with America...What you have talked about is just one area. This past year I have learned, above all else, is that I have a whole lot to learn and educate myself about. My children's future is important to me. Bringing awareness; sounding your voice is a perfect way all of us can help. No matter what our opinion is, we all can stand to learn more and listen more. WE THE PEOPLE- are the rudder of America, if we fail to protect our rights and remain uninformed, well...I don't want to think of what the future holds for us all.
This article is good in so many ways.
Thank you
Sorry folks pylos just left a comment insulting all of us, so I removed his comments. If he leaves another one and I don't catch it first, please alert Hubpage staff so we can get him banned. Thank you.
Welcome ocbill,
Have you ever poured water into a bucked that has holes in the bottom? If you pour the water in slow it instantly drains out, however, if you pour the water in quickly it will fill the bucket for a time, but soon it will empty. That is what TARP will do. It will appear that the dumping in of large amounts of currency into the economy has help, then soon after when the bucket is empty again people will realise that it didn't hold.
Other Nations have no choice but to follow our lead and do the same thing. The outcome for them will be the same as our outcome. I have several indicators that I keep a close eye on, I could be wrong, but I really believe from what i see that by the end of April all economic hell is going to break loose. I believe for America, it will start in California and quickly spread across the entire Nation.
You can rest assured that most people disagree with me, but on the other hand, is it really going to hurt people to store away a little food etc., just in case? The worst thing that could happen is in a year or so you will have to eat the stored food.
Excellent hub on the coming depression. It is happening just as one guy said it would 10 years ago..There is really nothing to invest in. I forgot about how TARO will affect the dollar..that is going to bad, bad. for everyone around the world. However, won't this devaluation be offset by China and Europe initiating their bailouts which they have approved.
Pylos, P.S.
We are all adults in here discussing a very important issue. Though we disagree we do not personally attack others on this Hub. You are welcome to stay and comment, you are welcome to share your view, but be warned, do not make comments that are meant as an attack. These types of debates do get heated and most people have learned how to handle the heat. I hope that you will be one of these.
Thanks for stopping by Misha, your presence is always appreciated.
My dear Pylos, that really added to the conversation, thank you for your blank insight.
Pylos, what is your point? You seem quite a bit silly yourself always attacking people and asking for excuse afterwards...
Welcome back Ralph,
I have read and studied all the current economists and their recommendations; however, I also study history. One thing I have learned is that our present has been created by following the policies and recommendations of these economists.
Another thing that can be seen in the study of history is that the period of American history which is known as the “Roaring Twenties” is what led to the Great Depression. The economists of that time also believed that the answer to strengthening the economy and keeping the party going, was to flood the economy with more cash. So the Government shoved 68% more cash into the economy, we all know the result was the crash of the Market and the Great Depression.
If we follow the same road map and do not change directions, how can we expect a different destination?
Hello Ralph,
I think that if we had solid verifiable evidence that President Bush purposed in his mind to do something that would harm the guiltless, then maybe we could consider him a bad man. Honestly Ralph, I think that any good man who was confronted with the information that was placed on Bush's table, would have done what this man did. In fact, if he had not responded to what he believed was a threat, this is what would have made him a bad man, in my opinion.
Welcome back Maven, I don't consider Mr. Bush a fool either. It was just my way of answering those who consider him a fool. To this mans credit, he is the only recent President who I have seen that did not age 20 years during his Presidency. The torment and hell that man was put through would have destroyed a hundred Obama's. This present President is already showing signs that he will not be able to handle the pressure properly.
I agree, President Bush was misled by his advisers. It is nothing but speculation when we hear all these complaints saying we had other motives for doing it.
Bush is human, but not a very good one.
Born to be Free said:
" I would rather know a man who is an open fool than a man who is a deceptive genius."
Brilliant response to Pylos.
Though, I don't consider George Bush a fool, by any stretch. Not many folks have the smarts, and guts, to fly an F-16. These are very complicated and highly dangerous machines. They don't give away MBA's at Harvard, I don't care who you are.
It has always been a mystery to me why people buy into the media-hyped question of his intelligence. Sure, he has disappointed his conservative base, the pandering to the left, his complicity with Kennedy on Immigration reform, his cave on the 700 billion bank bailout, and his tin ear towards foreign policy.
That doesn't make him stupid or a fool; that makes him human, and humans make mistakes. If anything, I would say he was ill served by his chosen advisers on many issues.
I think we can all agree that he did protect America from terror after 9-11. In that sense it was " Mission Accomplished " for George Bush. Iraq is on the path to its first democracy. Let history sort out the petty crap. In what really mattered, Bush succeeded.
Fair enough. I suggest you read up on what most middle-of-the road economists are recommending be done to keep the country and world from falling into a depression. The majority are recommending a quick and big stimulus package and steps to get the credit markets and banking system back on track.
WOW! A real America, unbelievable
Hello Ralph,
Your right, NAFTA was the child of George H. W. Bush, but it did not really come into play until Bill Clinton picked it up. Bill Clinton was not satisfied with the way NAFTA was written so he added many side agreements that expanded the destruction of our Sovereignty. It is Clinton who receives credit for energizing NAFTA.
“As for the 82% supporting your view I say "birds of a feather."
That response attempts to avoid the obvious fact that the majority of Americans do in fact disagree with the continuing wasteful Government spending.
Ralph, has the truth so angered you that you must now reach into some dark closet to pull out something that does not exist, in an effort to hit back? All the conspiracy theories that you have mentioned above have not been mentioned by me, they are mentioned by you in a futile attempt to try to discredit what I stand for.
Ralph, I know we disagree, but let’s stick to the facts please. To me, the attack of that statement would imply that it is you Ralph who allows your mind to wonder off into conspiracies.
btby, you strike me as a conspiracy believer--as in the CIA and FBI and LBJ assassinated JFK or the Jews were warned about 9-11 and evacuated the World Trade Center, or the CIA planned the 9-11 attacks, or Obama is a secret Muslim and not a natural born American citizen and therefore not eligible to be President, etc, etc. [Please excuse me for erroneously attributing opinions to you if they are erroneous.]
As for the 82% supporting your view I say "birds of a feather."
NAFTA was negotiated by George H.W. Bush It was ratified under Clinton who supported the treaty. It has much greater support in the GOP than from Democrats.
I would rather know a man who is an open fool than a man who is a deceptive genius.
Hello Ralph, At the time of responding to your comment, my poll shows that 82% of my visitors disagree with your opinion. You know how I feel about all this; I think from all the evidence we can clearly see that this did not come about all of a sudden, it has finally come to a head under Bush, but this Government and the policies they have supported for decades has finally hit us hard. I really see this all taking place because in order for Bill Clintons NAFTA disgrace to take place, the will of the American people must be broken.
Obama is messing with the free market in the name of fixing things. All a part of the plan to take freedom from Americans. The only difference in Obama and Bush is Obama has an appeal that draws multitudes beneath him. Bush was a callus old Cowboy.
Gary, you have said it all so well, I will cut right to the chase. It comes right down to the fact that this is all indeed happening to bring us all to a place where we are all totally dependent upon a One World Government Power. Gary, did you hear President Obama when he proclaimed that the only answer to the problems we face in America is the U.S. Government? For a short time it will appear to some that this was true, and their god has delivered them, but by the time we get to the end of April, those who blindly followed their leader, will fall into the ditch he has prepared for them.
You can see from other comments here that many are buried already by the mentality that the only answer to our problem is the Government. But you can also see that there be more for us than there be against us. This is the reason that our Government has been working on plans to militarize our streets. They are going to justify it in the name of security and peace, but the real reason is to silence those who threaten to expose them for what they are.
I am always telling people that we have become a Nation of people who always wait until after the fact to do something about a problem. We wait until the floods come and destroy everything before we fix the Levy. We wait until the fires come and destroy thousands of homes before we clean the brush away from the home. On and on it goes.
Most, as you pointed out will wait until after the fact that they have become literal slaves to the Government before some of them wake up and join those who warned them.
I'll tell you the secret to getting this thing started Gary; it starts as a little unseen spark. That spark starts a small almost unnoticeable fire. Once the fire has begun, it begins to spread. Then as more and more voices unite, these voices become a mighty wind that blows upon this fire. When it reaches this point, there is no stopping it.
What we will see as this moves forward, is those who choose blindness will be our mortal enemies. They will stop at nothing to extinguish the light that exposes their foolish submission to darkness.
born to be free, I think there are a couple of things at work here. You compared the situation, for instance, to that of spreading the message beyond the four walls of the church. I think it's an apt analogy. The question is this: do we have a 'church,' so to speak, which is capabale of organizing people around a common message on these issues?
I think, unfortunately, that education of the public is still the largest barrier. I mean, take the example of the way in which these bailouts are being framed: the true governing body of the world recognizes that people are more than willing to organize around a broad issue of common consequence to them all and therefore have a highly vested interest in finding a common solution. Thus, all they have to do is to make sure that their representative leaders--their 'puppet leaders'--pretend to represent that interest.
This sort of 'we're all in it together' mentality on the part of even the elite is a farce and you and I both know it. You and I both understand, for instance, that the same international banking families have controlled the significant power sectors of both parties in this country, alone, since at least 1913, and have had similiar influence on virtually every other major world power for at least as long. You and I both understand, for example, that either of the two presidential candidates being offered as choices for the public to decide between, at any given four year interval since that time, has represented these monetary overlords' interests and not ours. You and I both see very plainly that this is exactly the reason behind the historically unprecedented and previously unfathomable concentration of world wealth that has occurred across the last century. 4% of the population control 96% of the world's wealth, and they are not about to give it up. They want the power--the money is just a means to an end. I think that you and I both understand this very well.
Unfortunately, I don't think that the majority of the people do. I think they see clearly that the economy is failing, but I think they still see their government as a force trying to fix it, rather than a force which is quite purposefully causing the problem with a specific end in mind--i.e. a one-world reserve bank, currency, and governing body. Now, if you and I can see that what is being done in Washington amounts to nothing less than the Executive and Congress handing whatever little is left of our tax money straight over to this international corporate banking cartel--many of the members of which, incidentally, claim dual-citizenships (like Rohm Emmanuel) but swear no allegiance to any particular country in all reality--then we can assume with all certainty that very few of those involved in making policy decisions are ignorant of it either. (Which is what makes Congressman Paul such a rarity.)
The point I'm driving at is that I think we're facing a formidable double-whammy of sorts in being able to deal with the problem, while I agree with you that a very large, very open, and very active public display is crucially needed very soon, I'm not so sure that we have a large enough mass of people awakened to the reality of the situation, at this point, to accomplish the task.
I could be wrong, though. Maybe there are enough people. I mean, what do you think? You might know a lot more about the prospect of organizing social movements than I do. In any event, you're probably right. Words need to become actions and it needs to happen very quickly. Maybe we could draw up a basic mission statement or something to that effect, start recruiting members, and organize a march. I am more than willing. Let me know what you think.
George Bush and Wall Street put the country and the world in a deep hole. Obama has assembled the best experts he could find. It won't happen overnight, but they will get the ship turned around. We should all be supporting what they are doing.
Hello Gary, I just love the fact that so many people who have commented on this Hub are not blind. You know, as I sat here tonight reading all the comments, something really hit me. Years ago the focus of most Churches was getting outside of the four walls and taking their message to the World. They would do this at any cost, I can still remember being spit on, a couple of times I was beaten, but the cause was more important than the bruised flesh and broken bones, so we continued. This has all changed and now Christians for the most part just hang out in their dust covered shrines.
The reason I brought this up is because we as Americans are doing the same thing. Think about it, here we set every day in our living rooms just typing away about the problem. But actually form a massive group and march on Washington, no way! Boy, Washington must love our inactive way of dealing with them. No wonder they have gotten so out of hand.
This is an orchestrated event being perpetrated by the international banking cartels who own and operate the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is like Federal Express, which is to say that it is not 'Federal' at all, but rather, privately owned.
The money being 'borrowed from the taxpayers' is not going to help us, because the money is being stolen.
I repeat.
The money is being stolen. Flat out stolen.
Wake up people.
This hub is correct. A WORLDWIDE depression most definitely is coming, and not only is it coming; it's being orchestrated. A one-world reserve bank with a one-world currency will follow successively.
Hello christian durham,
I grew up in the Desert and my family was less than poor. I too have enjoyed the excess in America, but I never lost my principle of owing no man anything but love. You are right, there is nothing wrong with debt though, as long as it is for needful things. A Glutton is much more than someone that eats too much, to me a Glutton is anyone who has a compulsion to devour anything way too much. Credit is a good example. I have watched multitudes of people buy their toys on credit and not stop until the card was maxed. And I have watched many who seen their end coming go out and max the card and then file bankruptcy.
The Corporations and others drove this car until the wheels fell off. Now our wonderful Government has helped them to stand on our broken backs with their arms full of money, stomping and laughing all the way to the banks, toting bags of gold taken from the broke tax payers.
Seachangeqld, Hello again.
I stand on this side of eternity, while I can look at times into that eternal realm, I can not live there as long as I am housed in this temple of clay. "The Answer" can only be realized in part by each individual, our only hope of rising beyond our personal level of limit is to be in union with our fellow man. Many spend their time here on earth focused on the Heavens, but the Heavens do not await those who have not strengthened the bond of men on the Earth. When men learn to put others before themselves, when men learn that it is only through death to self that one can live, then maybe this one can add his or her small part of "The Answer" to the puzzle.
This is my whole argument of my Hub American. There was a time when Americans stood together and demanded their leaders do what is right. Now, because of special interest group, we have allowed ourselves to be separated. A house divided against itself can not stand. If we are to reclaim our Nation, we must once again learn to stand hand in hand against those who seek our destruction, whether they be domestic or foreign.
How I wish I did have the answer, how I wish for the day when my journey has ended, when on the other side I may be given the opportunity to understand some small mystery.
Thank you again for writing Seachangeqld
I totally agree with everything you stand for. The sad part is that im guessing only about 10% of Americans will actually be ready. We have become way too greedy for our own good. People think they have to have 2 50,000 dollar vehicles and a million dollar home to be happy, when its NOT REAL! Its all imaginary, and its not theirs. We have become sad and pathetic. My Father has been seeing this coming WAY before anyone i know, and has been urging everyone to PLANT A GARDEN!! He even got a permit to make grain alcohol for personal use so that he could continue to run his small tractor. My Grandfather on the other hand has always went toe to toe with my Father, and has the mindset of "Make your Money work for you." Thats our problem. These rich corporate bastards want something for nothing. We dont make any product anymore. You have to earn your own substinance. On the bright side, when it happens, things will go back up, and Ive never had anything, so i dont have much to lose, unlike all these middle class people who are in debt up to their eyeballs. The only thing I didnt see or hear about was Jimmy Carter. No one ever says his name, and he deserves much credit. He warned my parents and grandparents that we needed to be looking for alternate fuel sources, and if we did not change the way we were living, their children and grandchildren would suffer. I saw where he went on television and spoke nationwide saying that for just one night, if everyone would put on a sweater and turn their thermostat down three degress we would save millions in energy. People thought he was crazy. Then along comes Reagan and removes the solar panels, and laughs his ass off at Carter, like he was some kind of loon. What have we become?
I have a riddle for you born to be free. If you can solve it then perhaps there are some answers in the solving. Perhaps just more questions.
Oh, The Sword of the Spirit. A deep and buried League. Do not Byrne all books, for some have social credit. Victoria was born in 73 B.C.
Why speak in riddles? truth is an enemy of all that we fear.
Saeid, Hello. First, to answer your question about is the recession in the United States the result of God judging America for its' attack on Iraq and Afghanistan. I would also ask you this; Since this recession is not limitted to the United States, but is almost world-wide, is God then not judging the entire world? This recession is caused by foolish economic policy and an economy based on credit.
I think that the United States has not yet attacked Iran because we are a merciful people, to a point, I can tell you this much, if President Bush had felt he had cause to stop Iran at this time, he would have proceeded with or without public opinion or tight money.
I would caution Irans people about a leader who distorts history in order to push his agenda against the people of God, Israel.
You ask if President Bush will ever be questioned by the American people, sure, that's been going on for years.
You can be sure that what soever a man seweth that shall he also reap. Whether we do good or bad, one day we will answer for it. That goes for every single person.
Hello to all. This thread seems to have very interesting and intelligent
remarks by everyone. So here's a question I'd like to have answered. First off, I didn't read any refrence to the two wars that the US is fighting right now and most definately draining its ailing economy. Now for my question, does any one think that had this credit crunch not surfaced at this time, the US would have attacked Iran, the way it did Iraq?
Here's another question for those who believe in Karma, or 'what goes around, come around'. Since the US invasion of iraq and Afghanistan, there has been upward of half a million people killed in both countries, and over 6 million people displaced in Iraq. Some to Syria, some to Jordan. Could this recession and the possible depression be god telling the US to back off?
I find it completely disturbing that there is more news on Yahoo about the American Idol than there is about the effects that the US invasion has had in Iraq. George Bush got away with what he did. Will he ever be questioned by the American people?
With greetings from Iran
Nets, good morning to you. Funny you should bring up gold, I have had this crazy feeling about gold, for some time I have felt that the old reliable price shooting up when the worthless dollar crashes, will go the other way this time. So far it has done just what it was trained to do, I just have this feeling that I can not explain.
It reminds me of the same feeling I had when I told my friends to sell their home six months before the bubble busted. I told them to sell, but do not buy, stay in your motor home and wait. They did sell the home, but they bought another one for a lower price. Too bad.
Born, great hub. My opinion is that there's nothing to do now but buy gold and wait for the inevitable.
Nets
That was strange, as I was adding the last comment somehow my entire comment capsule vanished. I thought I had lost them all. Man! Anyway, I wanted to give you all this link for information on NAFTA. http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd332.htm
Seachangeqld, you got me laughing now, I was all set on studying to find out when Oz lost their voting power, :-)
From what you have written, it is very clear that you are not sleeping in the middle of all that's going on. To tell you the truth, what I am looking for to happen at the end of this global economic melt down, is a global plan of all Governments to join together as one unit. A union which shares power, product and people.
Some people may read this and laugh, and say, not America! My reply to them is a simple word, NAFTA. Our United States Government has already passed the law and enacted NAFTA. The North American Free Trade Agreement. I believe most Americans are totally unaware of what this does. In this plan Mexico, U.S.A. and Canada merge into one Union. The United States will no longer be a Soverign Nation.
Hi Born to be free - thanks for your support. I must clarify something though (sorry for being ambiguous), we can vote for OUR political leaders (though this is a waste of time as they are all tarred with the same brush), what I meant was - we can't vote for YOUR President, even though the US leadership affects our lives here as it does yours there.
Australia, even in my lifetime (and I'm not that old), was a fairly autonomous country - we were not unduly affected by foreign decisions. This is no longer the case - virtually every major movement in the US economy, banking system, stock market etc is reflected here in Australia. You have recession - we have recession.... This is a complex issue but the intricate web of dependence Australia now has with the US means that in every day life - we may as well live in the US. But we don't have any of the advantages of living in the US - just the disadvantages of being a 'secret state'.
I agree with your comments about the true nature of the American people - like here, the governments DO NOT represent the will of the people. When I say that 'we' see America as arrogant, self serving etc. Of course this is not a personal reference to individual citizens - It more applies to the 'Machine' of America - the government representation of the US. And I guess, President Bush - people here could not believe that a man like him could be a president, let alone a president of the most powerful country in the developed world.I also think that Aussies are blaming the US for our predicament, when in fact it was our own lack of fighting spirit, forethought, and belief that allowed Australia to lose it's uniquely isolated economy. The people saw it coming and went to the pub.(short for public house or bar). Aussies are just too laid back, our favourite saying: 'She'll be right mate'.
But it's never been right again. We lost our manufacturing, we lost our farms (the number of farms just in the last 20 years has halved), we export our oil and import some one else's and pay more for it, we can no longer own a gun in most circumstances (no risk of civil war here), our highest court is now over ruled by the high court in Brussels under the international law B.S., We import inferior food for our people while exporting our good stuff. But the worst thing - our kids cannot sing Christmas carols in school in case it offends a Muslim child. I could go on & on....
The pioneering spirit which was in both Americans and Australians, needs a re-awakening. We need to make the will of the people the governing force in our future. Our Governments have consistently and deliberately made us slaves of survival. They may use slightly different methods but the end result is the same. People don't have time to think, plan or shape the future. They are too busy trying to eat. (I could write a whole series of hubs in this thread.)
Here in OZ there is a lot of optimism about President Obama. People here think that perhaps he is a breath of fresh air. For all sakes I hope they are right. But somewhere deep down, I am worried.
Carrie, hello. Thank you so much for your comment. I'm glad that you've had some takers on planting a garden, give me their names; LOL :-). You are totally right about the situation out in the streets of America. One poster commented that rising crime is all media hype, I wish I could find one city in America where crime was not rising, I would pack up and go right now.
There is no quick and easy fix is true. This is why the TARP bailouts are not the answer. It is just a continuation of the problem that landed us here. I do have a hope in me about the American people; though we sometimes fall to sleep, there are still those who, when backed against the wall, have the spirit to awaken and arise and extinguish the threat.
Seachangeqld, thank you for your comments. I had no idea you couldn't vote in Australia. The truth is, if Americans continue to allow her politicians to stomp on the Constitution we will end up just like you. The view you have of America is shared with most of the World now. What is sad about that is that the majority of Americans are caring, loving people, working hard every day to survive. But being Americans, we are seen by the World as a people who support the corruption of our leaders and corrupt big business. Most of us do not support them, we are trapped under their control. We have placed ourselves in a position where if we are going to eat, we must support them. If we are going to buy a home, we must support them. If we need anything here in America we must submit to them in order to use their services and products. We as a people need to become self sufficient again instead of depending so much on others to supply what we need.
As far as those who voted for Obama, I'm sure that many voted color and not conscience.
You mentioned changing the course. Yes, there is much that can be done, but it takes courage and spirit. It will take the same spirit that dwelt in our forefathers. There is really only one answer for turning this around, it is found in our Constitution. Our founders spoke of how Americans could and should deal with their Government when that Government has changed "We The People", to "We The Government."
Chivirico, thank you for stopping by and commenting. You are right, eventually we all have to pay for what we have done. It may take a long time time for payday to come, but it always comes.
Myriad, thanks for the comment and help. We have to get this information out there any way we can.
Seachangeqld, forgive me for not putting a stop to Mandybeau's abuse sooner. This type of abusive will not be tolerated on any of my Hubs again.
Mandybeau, I will not allow you to post on this Hub again. I warned you once about the way you attack others. Even freedom of speech has its' limits when your speech is used to cause harm. It's one thing to point out facts that others may disagree with but it is a far different thing when it is used to attack.
This Hub is no different than a class room where people come to learn and share their views on a topic. You can share your view in a class room but no Teacher would allow a student to bully and attack another student.
Mandybeau - Well yes, there are non-racist Aussies - just like there must be non-racist Americans. Unfortunately the ancient civilisation of the Aboriginal Australian is long gone (there are some genuine full blood tribes in remote desert communities who shun white intervention, money etc).
The new culture is either to be integrated with mainstream euro-culture or to live on the pathetic 'reservations' that have been given to them by the government that are social disasters. Alcohol is a major problem, health care etc. These problems cannot and will not be solved over night - but there is huge work going on here to make changes. (I think the problems in the US are very similar with Native Americans)
WE DO NOT HATE OUR INDIGENOUS BROTHERS! Some Australians are ignorant, misinformed and plain stupid (just like some Americans), but the majority of people I know feel compassion, sorrow and a sense of loss - the magnificent Aboriginal culture was destroyed by our fore-fathers, just the same as your Native Americans had their culture destroyed.
Our governments are doing similar things - handing back land, more money etc. Nothing will compensate the Aboriginal people for their loss, and many are simply riding a gravy train, not having any real connection to their Aboriginal heritage other than a good suntan. It's mainly these 'white' Aboriginal activists that benefit from the 'help' from the government.
The genuine people, the tribal Aboriginal trying to preserve their heritage/language/spirituality - these are the people who should be listed as 'endangered national treasure' and given all and every means to succeed. Not money, not alcohol, not a free ride - they should be given autonomy, productive lands and support to live as they always have. Support to teach the 'dreaming' to the next generation - in their own language.
To suggest I am the first non-racist Australian is a bit...OUCH. And only slightly exaggerated. I think our country in general is far less racist than the US. Our local governments do not list citizens by their colour or ethnicity - yours do. I live in a multi-cultural country town, Aboriginals, Italians, Greeks, Lebanese, Sudanese.... and we have no compiled info on the % of each race. That is information that is unnecessary in our culture. Neo-Nazism, Klu Klux Klan etc has never got a hold here - Hate is a strong word that most Australians would never apply to any race. Hate is something that has never been a part of the traditional Australian way of life. It takes a lot of energy to hate, we are too laid back for that.
As for 'Independence' from England - we got that at Federation in 1901. We have had several referendums to seek to follow the Republican model, and all have been rejected by the majority. We are happy little Commonwealthites.
Neither the US or Australia will ever be able to give everything back to our indigenous peoples - until they invent time travel.
Stay with me friends, I will respond Tuesday to your new posts. Thank you all for dropping by.
I am happy to see that you listed planting gardens as a way to combat the volatile economy. I have been preaching this myself over the last year. Thankfully, I've gotten a few takers, and I've got my fledgling gardener friends under my wing for the upcoming season! With healthy foods prices skyrocketing quickly, it's imperative to have a means to feed yourself.
I also agree with your statements regarding the sad state of the way things have become. When I was a kid, I could ride my bike freely around the neighborhood without fear of weirdos snagging me. I knew all the neighbors on my street and I knew I could go to them if I had a problem and they would help. Now days, I am very slow to make contact with people around me, as I am not sure what caliber of persons I am dealing with.
Truly it is going to take the common sense, down to earth, hardworking people that are willing to band together and take a stand to get out of this financial and moral crisis we're in. Surely we're in for some sacrificing, but in my opinion, my generation has been living beyond their means for quite some time, and now find themselves in an inescapable pit of anxiety and debt- there is no quick and easy fix.
Thank you for your post, it was very well written!
I am from Australia. We are suffering in a similar, though perhaps lesser way as the US. Australia, in my opinion became a 'secret state' of the US back in the 80's. The sad part for us is we don't get to vote for the president or for that matter, we have no say at all in the decisions that affect our lives over here.
What amazed me about the Obama hype is the way the African American people of the US seem to be rejoicing in his election based on the colour of his skin. Obama's parents, I understand, are a Kenyan father and white American mother? He has no relationship to the ancestry of slavery in the US? Did he rise from the Ghetto to carry the flag of freedom from oppression for his African American brothers?What about the Native Americans? Did they rejoice for him also? But anyone has to be better than the comedian Bush.
On this side of the world we see the US as an arrogant, self serving monster with the power to crush all at a whim. Not this time with nuclear bombs, but with the excessive greed and corruption that seemed to permeate your culture from way back to.... not sure when. A culture that Australia was more than happy to embrace.
I agree with your comments and sentiments on politicians, credit etc. It's good to see that there are still spirited American people who believe in the essence of freedom. Unfortunately for us in OZ, there are really no spirited people left here, and certainly no political leaders or even local hero's. Our governments conduct a symphony of lies & corruption, written by unknown composers under the guidance of the Maestro of the 'New World Order'. We are the voices in the wilderness and God is not listening. (That might be because most people don't talk to Him anymore.)
The picture you paint is very real and I believe you are right. It makes me sad as I cannot do anything to change the course - can you?
Thank you for a great hub.
Friends: This is the second phase of the FDR New Deal. People always think that electing the opposite candidate will solve the problem we get in under one administration. The 1930"s Depression was not solved by FDR's policies. It was "we the people" that overcame it. Today is going to be worst because is a continuation of the failed policies of FDR. We are going to go deeper into it. You mess around with the free market and the free market will mess you up for violeting its principles. There is no synthetic solution for economic problems. Since FDR or a little before we have been messing around with the free market and is going to bite us now Big Time.
Great Blog man . I already decided to share it with my friends through email and links ! Good going man ! Good insights
Shaun, well spoken. The facts of the situation at hand do not mean we give up. Your comment reminds me of a thought that came to me when I was recently stranded in the Desert for a month, "Your greatest friend is the enemy who has crushed you." It is the pressures in life that squeeze out the strength within. Thank you for the visit Shaun.
Yes, I agree, there is plenty to be gloomy about. I live on the other side of the world and the US woes are hitting us too. Fortunately we have had quite strict financial controls in South Africa so we are not as exposed as the 'developed world'. But, where there is crisis there is opportunity and there's plenty of opportunity around if your eyes are open and you have some of the backbone you spoke about. Opportunity to make a real and lasting positive difference, to add value to people's lives. The rules are changing, it's as simple as that. And the world will never be the same again. And this is coming from someone who's property development business has been on the verge of collapse ... I am already getting new business underway. Not easy but it seems to be the only way. Courage!
Mandy, believe me, the chain of bad Presidents does not break at the Obama link, the chain continues. From what I seen, this man was chosen for two reasons; one, he won by default because there was no way the majority was going to vote Republican, and number two, charm. That's it. Sad thing about charm is that it usually has no helpful substance. And may I also humbly suggest that you may look into taking a class on how to professionally speak in a heated debate, because it really does help. Might I suggest that you study other posters comments on this Hub? You will learn that although some disagree, they do it with tact. I will not remove your post this time, but please tone it down just a bit, thank you.
Kubrat, thanks.
Great Artcile!
Thank you Born to Be Free. Good Hub.
I believe there are many factors that have triggered this meltdown. Greed is certainly one of the main ones that we can pinpoint.
Last night my father-in-law directed me to an economist, Harry Dent, who explains the Whys of this coming depression. I'm sure not everything he says is right on target, but I think it is a good road map for the near future. He has correctly predicted several economic downturns in other cultures.
Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sMdpuYbjBY
Stylista613, Thank you for stopping by. It is getting closer. You know I heard President Obama make a real scary statement the other day. He said that the United States Government is the only source with the answer to our economic problems. That's scary when you understand that it is the Government and their failed financial policies that put us where we are today. In Mavens comment above, he brought up the issue of Nixon taking us off the gold standard. That's what allowed the Government to start printing money that had no value. That Government policy has now cascaded and grown to the point that we have today trillions and trillions of worthless paper money that has deflated the value of our dollar. They just don't get it, now we see that President Obama will continue down the same old road. Well, we are now facing a brick wall at the end of that road. I do see some good in all this; one thing is that we will all learn during these trying times, who our real friends are. Another thing that will take place is there will be true equality, everyone will be equally broke. Hopefully there are enough strong Americans left so that we can make it out of this stronger than we were when we enter this period of time.
Hillary1, thanks for your comment. I disagree, I believe the policies of Barack Obama will drive the last nails in to the coffin of the economy. Any good economist that is not getting kick-backs from these TARP Bailouts will tell you that this is economic suicide. As far as the racism goes, I know it is still alive and I believe that it is the ACLU that are keeping it alive. Like I told another poster, the Whites and the Blacks embraced what is right. The Blacks and the Whites Love each other now. All the Black Churches I have preached in love me, not a single one of these Churches preach the unforgiveness that Obama and his crowd preach.
awesome post born to be free, and awesome comments!
We do need to prepare for what is ahead, thats very true! Everyday it seems like its getting closer and closer..
Learned alot, thanx
i think that obama will do an amazing job at pulling our country out of the slump that we have fallen into. I mean if he didn't think he could do good for our country then why run. Why would he run knowing that he is putting his life and his families life in danger. I mean i know that we like to think that at this day in age we are over racism but we aren't we are far from it there are still people in this country who wouldn't vote for Barack Obama just because of the fact that he is black. Those's same people are people who probably no nothing about the candidates policies or anything like that. But all that aside i think that Obama will help not hurt our country.
This post is to correct a statement I made earlier. I stated; You know, before the media and our President would admit we were in a recession, I, along with millions of Americans knew we were in a recession. I listened as the media, especially Tom Brocaw preached we were not in a recession. Finally when President Bush admitted the fact that we were in a recession, Tom Brocaw said, Hogwash, Mr. Bush, you are just wrong."
It was not Brocaw, it was Lou Dobbs. Sorry Tom.
Hello Single Mama,
Though we do not fear;
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
We do need to prepare for what is ahead. I am reminded of a man named Jacob. This man was warned by God of a great famine that would soon hit Egypt and the surrounding area. This man did not fear, but he did warn others to prepare. This one act of obedience saved the lives of multitudes during that great famine.
Another man of God comes to mind; a man we know as Moses. This godly man was warned by God of a coming flood that would destroy all living. For 120 years Moses preached and warned men of this coming doom. Not one human outside the family of Moses took heed, as a result all perished.
To bring the discussion to where we are today, I am reminded of this warning;
Eze 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
To judge between what is right and what is wrong is the duty of every soul. But to judge a man is the job of God alone. Rest assured that I recognize that even I am a man of many sins, I too will stand before our God and give answer for what I have done in this life.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
My personal opinion, is that no matter who the President is at this point in time, they are not going to be able to change the world overnight. Whoever is in office is going to go through the trial and error phases just like many things in life. I am not afraid of "the great depression" or this recession. I am a believer in hope, faith and God. My focus is to fulfill my purpose and not worry about juding who is wrong and who is right. I am concerned with the fact that many believe Obama is our only hope to change things. He should not be idolized.
Thanks for stopping by djtphn1. Your wrong, I am not trying to crucify anyone’s lord. I am simply talking about sound economic policies vs. policies that are proven failures.
As far as some mans personal traits, I have never, and will never like a deceiver. A man who thinks nothing of telling a lie for the purpose of winning favor.
For twenty years, Barack Obama sat under the hateful teachings of his Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright. When Obama was exposed as a man who was taught hatred, for the sake of the election he denounced the man. We soon learned that in fact Barack Obama was not serious about his rejection of people who walk around with bitterness against an entire race of people, when at his Inauguration we were subjected to the comments of his friend Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery.
I'm afraid that this mans charm, combined with his deceptive nature, is going to some day turn and bite those who worship him.
I think people like yourself, are just waiting to crucify our President. For me, he instilled a hope inside that I have not felt in years. He made me want to take responsibility for myself and in doing so, start doing what all people are meant to do...be of service to the community in which they live. Although I am a nurse and taking care of people is my business, so to speak, I often fail to help others when I leave my job because I am just too tired. Obama made me see that each day, I can be of service, even if it is as simple as picking up trash that someone has dumped on the side of the road, or allowing the car next to me on the road to move in front of me when I am in a hurry too. Also, Obama did not do this to our country, Bush and the Republican party did. Obama WILL fix things, just give him a chance, people!
Hello Maven, Good day to you. Now that’s exactly what I’m trying to get across to folks, this problem is real. We are all collectively paying for the sins of failed policy and corporate greed.
You pointed right to the beginning of our decline, Nixon and the abolishing of the gold standard. Isn’t it amazing how he was able to accomplish that? People talk about the Mob and how crooked they are, but look at our Government, printing counterfeit money in the trillions. Bold little suckers too, they do it right in front of our faces.
Maven, I think that if I am reading everything right, this is all part of a bigger plan to globalize our Nation. We can not be a part of this plan as long as we are a free people. As long as the dream to succeed is alive, the people are strong and independent. But take away the dream, and the will to fight flies right out the window. The population becomes a broken submissive robot dependent on its’ governing master to keep it alive.
In the new order of things, the right are wrong, and the wrong are right. The good are evil, and the evil are good. Those who refuse to ride this train to globalism and submission will ride another train to the prison camps.
I pray everything works out for you and yours Maven. Maybe we’ll meet on the other side of all this.
I just want to add to your comments to Amy and Tom, that I am one of those thousands of retired seniors that has seen my retirement portfolio reduced by 30 %, my home equity disappear, and my home value reduced to where we are almost upside down. I wasn't greedy, didn't budget foolishly, I followed the rules, and now we are staring at the probability of losing our dream retirement home, which we have worked all our lives to have.
To say i am disgusted with our governments fiscal policies, from Nixon on ( remember the gold standard he abolished ) through GW Bush, they all contributed to this collapse, would be an understatement.
My real anger is for the price my grandchildren are going to have to pay for this incompetent, corrupt, and callous decision to bail out everybody that has failed.
Amy, thanks for stopping by and commenting. Our economy is based on growth and the only answer our leaders and Corporations could come up with was credit. Because they had already sucked all the real money out of us they had to figure out another way to keep the economy growing. They used the same principle they are using with all these bailouts, just print more worthless paper money. It only helps for a moment, then payday comes. Those who think these bailouts are going to save us are blind. This is just a continuation of a failed policy. Amy, I agree that we as individuals need to fix our debt problems, but for many there is no way to do this. They dug a hole so deep and the dept has covered them in this hole. From what I see with the majority of people I know is that they will not be able to pay down their debt, they are in the process of losing everything. Many already have.
I disagree Tom. This is not media induced fear. All I have to do is walk down the street and see all the empty homes to know it's a fact. All I have to do is look at the price of food that has gone up 250% in the last 5 years. All I have to do is look at all the thousands of people who I personally know that have lost their jobs. You know, before the media and our President would admit we were in a recession, I, along with millions of Americans knew we were in a recession. I listened as the media, especially Tom Brocaw preached we were not in a recession. Finally when President Bush admitted the fact that we were in a recession, Tom Brocaw said, Hogwash, Mr. Bush, you are just wrong." I can go on and on with facts in front of me as to why media has nothing to do with our fears. Where media is a problem is where they refuse to show us all the tent camps around America that are full of those already afected by this. In many ways the depression has already started, the media just hasn't told us yet.
I do agree with you Tom about the end results of all this is going to be a total socialistic U.S. Government. All recent political leaders including, and especially Barack Obama, have been socialists. They have created and will continue to create an atmosphere where U.S. citizens will so fear the loss of everything that they will gladly accept the Governments ownership of business and control of their lives.
Wonderful Hub! While I'm worried, I don't see a depression. Remember there are real problems here but a good portion of this is media induced fear. Big media has been telling people for months this was a terrible economy etc. Now they will be cheering every small piece of good news and there will be some good news.
I also believe they will be soft selling much of the bad news at least for the first 12-18 months of this presidency. I believe this should improve the economic outlook of many and things will get better. In some ways, the election of Obama will help shorten this recession.
If you want the glass half full outlook, with the economy in shambles, the federal government and the new president can not be as aggressive as they might have otherwise tried. Imagine if we had a good economy and surpluses. Imagine all the pork and expansion of government that could happen under those circumstances. While I did not vote for Mr. Obama, I believe he is somewhat of a pragmatist and like Bill Clinton will do what is in his best interest to be re-elected, no matter what some in his party may think of his decisions.
My big worry is 8-10 years out with the new debt, all the new social programs, talk of increasing the size of government from 1-6 workers to 1-5. This will crush economic growth. That's the big fear...
I know that we are facing tough times as a nation, but it seems to me that we are also facing tough times as individuals. The individual debt in our nation is huge. Why do the political leaders think it's fine to live on credit? They were probably raised that way. We need to fix the families and get out of debt on a personal level as well. That requires good old fashioned hard work and budgeting, living within our means, and using technology to our advantage so we can start earning interest instead of paying it.
By the way, I agree with you on planting a garden. It is also important to have some food stored away, like wheat, beans, oil, and honey.
Welcome astroglide, thanks for the comment. Rome is a great example of the path we follow today in America. I still remember when back in the 80s parents began handing out homes, cars and cash to their lazy kids. What a great lesson they taught. Well, their kids learned that lesson well and our Government reinforced it. I can think of nothing better for a socialistic Government than to create an atmosphere where the citizen must rely on them for survival.
Good stuff. My generation and below (i'm 31) seems to expect a handout, and entitlement to a good life. No one can understand the value of what they've got unless they've earned it honestly, and industriously. Much like ancient Rome, the shoulders of our forefathers can't bear the pressure of so much dead weight.
Thanks for stopping by asupport, I appreciate your comment. Recession is a necessary part of a free market. When it is not allowed to take place by the dumping of worthless cash into the economy, the result is what we see today.
Maven, sorry, I just noticed my response is blank. It was a lengthy one, I'll repost soon.
Great hub! ... The only good thing about a recession: one day it will go up again.
I agree with most of Ron Paul's positions...when it comes to drugs we part company...to give in to the drug culture, to allow drugs to be decriminalized is absurd to me...some where, some time, some one has to take a stand against evil...and drugs are evil...you want to stop drug usage..? ..look to the root causes of drug abuse...work and fix them first...I worked for a non-profit group that dealt with adolescent substance abuse...I asked these kids why they did dope..the most often reason given was because they were bored...we need to fix that..
Hello Maven101 Thanks for stopping by. I totally agree with your comments. Corporate America has done nothing more than make the U.S. citizens economic prisoners to China. There are a lot of things I didn't post because I enjoy the little freedom I have left to use the Internet. Whenever I make my position known I start getting my firewall crashed from .mil intruders. My computer ends up crawling like a snail and I have to reformat and start over. To me it almost appears that everything going on is purposely done to draw out those who still care. Maven, personally, I am fed up with the labels they are putting on the last of the Americans who defend the Constitution and the Sovereignty of our Nation! Maven, I have also heard many others talking about the States splitting from the Union, I tend to agree that Texas just may be the first. Stay safe Maven, and yes, God help us all...
I think you have overlooked the much larger threat to our way of life. That is the creeping shadow of Socialism. The nationalization of AIG, IndyMac, Freddie, Fannie, and the Bank of America are just the start. That loan to the banks? Guess what...they didn't ease credit distribution, as the Fed expected...they sunk it into treasuries...who owns most of the treasuries..? China. They are holding a sword of Damocles over our collective heads. We are talking about a worldwide debt of over 50 TRILLION bucks..! No wonder Bernanke and Paulson want to destroy the American dollar to inflate us out of this incredible debt. Its amazing how few of our Washington politicians admit what they are doing...There is nothing more menacing than deflation when you have debt...
Will people demand a return to sound money and rugged individualism..? I doubt it. The last couple of generations don't have the fire in their bellies like those past. Spoiled brats look for handouts and paternalism, and politicians facilitate that process. Washington will keep promising more and more, and we will move closer and closer to a complete socialist state.
I look to Texas or some other powerful state to say enough is enough and get out. I really believe we are seeing the beginning of the breakup of our wonderful nation...God help us all.
Thanks for a great Hub....
James, I suggest we stop all bailouts, let the economy crash, and allow this recession to run its' natural course. All polls show that over 65% of Americans agree with this. Somehow the other 35% have no clue what the printing and distributing of worthless paper money does to the value of the dollar. We are going into world wide depression and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it, however, there is much we can do to make sure that when we come out the other side we will be far less in debt. I have never seen our Nations' people so mesmerized and hypnotized as they are today. They blindly follow any good looking, smooth talking Pied Piper. It does not seem to matter for many that this Pied Piper is really nothing but a deception with two very distinct faces. As far as the low life criminals and gang members who blanket our streets, one thing we can do is make their prison stays hard time instead of just a place where they all congregate and party. Put the ball and change back on their legs and make them work busting rock and digging holes. Make their stay miserable..
Now that you have pointed out the problem, what solution would you propose?
Thanks for commenting Eric. We wait until after the flood to fix the levy. We wait until after a fire to clear the brush away from the house. And we wait until our Government destroys our economy before we boot em' out. Well, maybe not booting them out, few care enough to ever stand anymore.
I agree with a lot of what you said, as I've had much of the same thoughts. Oh well, people don't listen, do they?
Fiat Empire How Federal Reserve Is Killing Nation. The DVD IS 120 Minutes Longer, http://www.fiatempire.com/
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